Fungus

Any comments on fungi on T. plicata in particular?

No, just generalistic (necrotrophic) parasitic macrofungi on T. plicata, because it's not an originally indigenous European tree species.

The one thing they do have is a weak root system. Even on their own roots they're pretty small as trees go ... compared to a 'forest' tree. They can't compete with grass, for either water or nutrients, so it needs removing. If you leave bare earth you get rapid water loss and since they have a weak root system the trees will then either need irrigation or measures to enhance water retention, such as a mulch. Keeping weeds off can be done chemically ... I don't regard maintaining an orchard (or even an individual fruit tree) as looking after an ecosystem so much as deliberately altering one, just as any form of farming or gardening is ... used Armillatox, about 20yrs ago ... a mulch as it's the best compromise available ... the tree, which is the part of the ecosystem I'm most interested in.

Alec,

The root systems of apple trees and other cultivated fruit trees are associated with just a few of the generalistic and cosmopolitan endomycorhhizal microfungi, which implies, that - apart from some generalistic (necrotrophic) parasitic macrofungi - they are "loners" that don't have an ecosystem, let alone a tree species specific ecosystem at all. And that's why they can't compete with grasses and herbs, that have the same endomycorrhizal associates attached to their root systems.

So whatever you do chemically (herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, Armillatox) or by mulching and introducing nutrients to the soil, there is not much damage done to the soil food web, because it hardly exists in the first place.

It is an interesting concept that pioneer species of fungi may be required to pave the way for our more recognisable tree decayers, especially so with tree species that produce high levels of phenols and terpenes.

Not maybe required, they must have been present to start up the process of decomposition by others and they appear and contribute in a rather strict order (succession), that has been researched and documented for several tree species such as Quercus, Fagus, Pinus, Picea and Abies by English, Swedish, Norwegian, German, Polish and Dutch mycologists. And thousands of (larvae of) insects such as beetles totally depend on the wood degrading macrofungi for the "preparation" of their food.

1. mulching a veteran field grown tree - good or bad?

2. Mulching to combat compaction - good or bad?

1. What tree species : associated with ectomycorrhizal symbionts such as Quercus, Fagus, Tilia or Castanea or associated with endomycorrhizal microfungi such as Fraxinus or Ulmus ? With what type of mulch and is it compatible with the soil food web ?

2. Could be good to combat compaction, could be bad at the same time because of diminishing soil oxygen and increasing soil nitrogen levels.

1. I find that the breakdown is dependant more on the longevity and depth of the mulch bed, once its been done annualy for five years or more its really starting to rock and deep layers will be but shards by the following treatment a year later.

2. And those Corprinopsis picaceus where fruiting on a deep freshish layer of beech chip, and thriving on it

Tony,

1. Did you research and monitor the effect of these unnatural mulch layers on the presence or absence of mycelia and/or fruiting of generalistic as opposed to tree species specific ectomycorrhizal symbionts as the outcome of decreasing levels of soil oxygen and increasing levels of soil nitrogen caused by (too) fast litter and woodchip decomposition ?

2. Sure, and not to my surprise as C. picaceus is a a tree species specific litter recycling saprotrophic species reacting on the availability of abnormal quantities of "food".

regarding the mycorhizea I have always felt that its better to have a litter layer as large as possible and leave the drip line out for the other mycos, roots go well beyond dripline.

Just as long as the mulch or litter layer comes from the same (community of) tree species as the introduced mulch or woodchips originates from. And then there's the difference in litter production and recycling speed between different tree species to consider.

belittle a god.......

How can I belittle a non-existing entity no one has ever seen that is a plain and simple product of your imagination ?

Are there any papers/studies on long(er) term success of fresh vs old woodchip mulch that anyone knows of, particularly on vet trees, or trees where compaction isn't necessarily the problem, eg ground that was grazed/mown but is now long grass?

Also I wonder if applying mulch to a field/pasture grown tree could adversely affect the mycorhizea already present? Eg. are some mycos happy in grass land situations, and some in woodland/mulched environments?

If this is the case could upsetting the present balance cause (short term?) problems, as new myco associations have to compete with one another until a new balance is reached?

Or is it the case that a mature root system can benefit from having multiple myco sp associating with it? Maybe woodland mycos on roots under mulch to the drip-line and field mycos further out?

To answer your question, one has to distuingish between trees associating with endomycorrhizal microfungi, that also associate with grasses and herbs (competition for nutrients and minerals) and trees that only associate with ectomycorrhizal macrofungi.

And whatever mulch you introduce, it can be incompatible with and disturb the balance within the soil food web and cause a lack of oxygen in the soil killing the symbionts first and then the roots when the layer is too think and/or too dense. Besides, rhizomorphs can use mulch as a medium to move towards the tree roots and base while feeding on the wood chips.

the fish symbol is far far far more reliable than the Land Rover symbol

It must be because otherwise the pope would not wear a wide spread fish beak (or bladder) shaped mitra on his head when he drives his popemobile. And your fish is the symbol of the vesica pisces, that represents and is shaped like the reproductive organ of the female goddess of life with the opening leading to "heaven" and the exit for giving birth to a child.

Good luck in the afterlife my friend.

What afterlife and with who as friends : paedophile priests and the like ? And could you please let us know by whatever means possible what you found in your fairy tale heaven after you have arrived ?

So contraception is more of a sin than bringing unwanted children into the world and the spread of horrendous decease?

Some decades ago, it turned out that the Vatican had quite a capital stock of Durex shares and was a big shareholder in the tobacco or sigaret and weapon industry too.

Is Amanita muscaria found in the Holy Land or Middle East? I gather it is found in many parts of the world, but not there.

It is, the Fly Agaric associates with pine trees in the Middle East and the brown Royal Fly Agaric (Amanita regalis), that contains just as much muscimol as Amanita muscaria and was used as a substitute, is also present.

According to anthropologists John Monaghan and Peter Just, many of the great world religions appear to have begun as revitalization movements of some sort, as the vision of a charismatic prophet fires the imaginations of people seeking a more comprehensive answer to their problems than they feel is provided by everyday beliefs.

Tony,

All of this is based upon the use of psycho-active plants and fungi or entheogens by shamans, high priests and prophets and/or their followers.

We would not have become social human beings by development of the "mycelium" or white matter interface of our brain and of colour vision, speech and language, if our ancesters from the neolithic period (Tassili/Algeria, Selva Pascuala/Spain) had not "experimented" with all kinds of food, and had not discovered the "magic" powers of mushrooms such as the Fly Agaric, the Liberty Caps (Psilocybe) and ergots by doing so.

Overwhelming and anxiety provoking vivid and increasingly colourful hallucinations triggered the need to share experiences with other members of the nuclear family or tribe and stood at the base of the transition from non-verbal ways of communication to speech and language development.

Rituals and ceremonies worshiping the "mushroom" gods were the first steps towards development of all kind of beliefs, superstitions and religions, that are all based on the need to explain and understand the unexplicable and sooth the existential anxiety arising from loss of control each of us feels deeply inside by attributing frightful and incomprehensive incidents happening around us to one or preferably a number of gods, that all can have rituals and ceremonies of their own.

I know, hence the "root" of all religions being the tree of life and or of knowledge ...

... which is not a tree, but the Sacred Mushroom, the Fly Agaric (Soma), an ectomycorrhixal symbiont associated with birch - the tree of happiness and bliss - and with spruce, the tree of Anna, the "mother" of mushroom Mary and grandmother of Jesus the Fly Agaric, the "fruit' from Mary's "womb" or "lap".

seriously been doing a bit of research into Pagan/Druid beliefs ... the dryads always new the truth!

Tony,

All christians have pagan roots, see this post.

But a virgin giving birth and a bloke dying and then turning up again are perfectly believable.

Sam,

It is perfectly believable if you interpret it the way it originally was ment to be understood. Both phenomenons are stages in the life cycle of the Fly Agaric, the Holy or Sacred Mushroom.

In the old days and even today - for instance the Russian orthodox Turkic Sakha people or Yakuts from the Verkhoyansk Range in Siberia - because of the psycho-active muscimol the dried caps of Amanita muscaria contain, the shamans and high priestesses used the Fly Agaric as an entheogen to contact and communicate with the gods by performing rituals and ceremonies.

The christian faith is based on the pagan tradition of using psycho-active mushrooms and plants to elicit hallucinations to experience "enlightenment" and "inner vision". The bible is a book written by people who were followers of the same (secret) cult and had experienced the effects of the use of entheogens too (Allegro, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross). They worshipped the Holy Mushroom by the eating of its flesh (Golden Fleece, bread, host) and drinking of its blood (red wine) from the chalice of life (the shape of a Fly Agaric in its final stage : see photo) symbolized in a non-existing person : Jesus, representing the red and white Fly Agaric, to mystify the real object of their worship and religion.

The role of the shamans was taken over by the clergymen of the roman catholic church, who integrated the pagan rituals in the ceremonies of the early church. Even today the main colours used for the clothing of the pope, cardinals and bishops and the display in the church are red, white and gold, the colour of the cap of the Fly Agaric after its has been dried.

From the beginning of the 13th century on (inquisition) the christian church has tried to "eradicate" all that remembers of the real "roots" of the religion and from then on lives in complete denial of its pagan origins.

Now to return to your statement. Virgin Mary was the daughter of Anna, the evergreen spruce, from which roots her "daughter", the (symbiotic) Fly Agaric or Mary emerges. Just as her mother Anna the tree, mushroom Mary became pregnant through the "miracle" of immaculate conception and "gave birth to" another mushroom, Jesus the Fly Agaric, coming from a Cosmic Egg or primordium, which is the first stage in the life cycle of Amanita muscaria. The mushroom slowly dies, is "recycled" and "resurrects" the next year from the roots of the grandmother tree, the spruce.

Until the invention of microscopes people could not see sperm nor spores of fungi, so they could not explain how the reproduction of animals and mushrooms took place. They did however understand that there was a relationship between the roots of certain trees such as the spruce or the birch and the mycelia of certain (ectomycorrhizal) fungi such as the Fly Agaric. So to "explain" the reproductive cycle of Amanita muscaria, they "invented" the immaculate conception of Anna and her "daughter" Mary. See : Astrotheology & Shamanism, a review.

In Lübeck in Germany there is one of the very few intact triptychs symbolically depicting the complete life cycle of the Fly Agaric at display, that survived the 16th century iconoclastic fury (see photo). In the Tree of Jesse or the "pedigree" of Jesus, from the hearts of Anna - the spruce - and her "husband" Joachim roots rise up that join together in a golden Cosmic Egg or primordium, out of which a wide spread cap with gills of Amanita muscaria in the shape of a chalice of life emerges, with Mary, a fully grown Fly Agaric sitting inside holding baby Jesus, the from her "womb" new born Fly Agaric, in her lap. Note that Joseph is not around and that the roots also "fruit" by producing spruce cones.

I'm inclined to say Gano

So am I .

Was'nt there a Holy Ghost in the bible somewhere?

There was, and funny enough, in Dutch we call it the Holy Spirit , so what's new on planet earth ?

One thing which crops up again and again from believers is their conclusion that those who do not believe lack a central pillar around which we can build our lives, something which keeps us grounded, gets us up every morning, urges us to be good people and put others first, to keep us strong in challenging times. That seems quite a misguided view to me, as a father. I'm sorry but no made up deity or even some dude claiming to be his son would ever have any chance of coming close to my children in performing that role. It actually quite offends me that anyone would suggest to me that my kids can't fulfill that role as well as something which, to me, genuinely is a work of pure fiction.

And the thing which baffles me the most is that there are people of any faith who feel that the only good which can be done is in a god's name. Why can't people just do these things for the sake of human kindness. Why do they need some sort of carrot and stick...?

I can safely say that I wouldn't be a better person if I followed a religion or had a faith. Which means, because I don't believe any of it, that I have the utmost respect for anyone of any creed. I cannot get my head round the fact that anyone who believes in god can be doing anything but disputing anyone else's belief system.

To not believe means one treats all religions the same, as nothing more dangerous that a quaint personal choice.

But a believer must surely treat their own religion as the only truth and everything else as fabrication or abomination. Just seems utterly bizarre, I cannot see how any religion can preach tolerance when defining themselves by their beliefs is at odds with treating everyone as equals....

Which takes me to the conclusion that ORIGINALLY, religion was not about a genuine god but instead about taking sides....

I couldn't agree more

Its interesting to see that there seem to be a lot more who believe in ghosts, than believe in God.

Before you leave this vale of tears, you should select 12 men to be your apostles and have them write a book claiming ghosts - including you - are real and do exist and start a new religion with its own rituals and ceremonies. See : Who beliefs in spirits in trees ?

Polyporus varius

.

1. There have been and are a great many compassionate and loving Christians - let's consider people like William Wilberforce, Desmond Tutu, Martin Luther King, christian charities such as Christian Aid, Tearfund, CAFOD .... in fact they are working hard to try and repair broken societies.

2. I have cut down trees (dying trees) for clients with similar beliefs - once I was asked to place the tree spirit in a box left out for me by the owner.

1. So are lots of people and organisations without a religious background that don't feel the need to publically "advertize" what motivates them in their work.

2. So have I. We for instance allowed an obviously psychotic woman to perform in her opinion necessary rituals and ceremonies to prepare and guide an elm in front of her house in Amsterdam to pass on to tree heaven for a week before we had the tree taken down.

1. Christians tell other people about Jesus because he is real. He was a real man, who did a real man's job 2000 years ago. He defeated death and the grave and lives today.

2. He died about the worth death possible at the hands of the Romans, the world experts in degrading execution.

3. Surely, in contrast, to an atheist there is nothing. If there is no God, no Jesus, there is nothing at the centre of your life

1. Never read the book "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" by John Allegro (2009) or "Was Jesus Caesar ?" by Francesco Carotta (2002) ? And you obviously don't know that the present pope delivered a speach saying that nowadays it is so hard to interest young people in "the faith" because there is no historical proof of the existence of Jesus as a person at all, as the only jew called Jesus ever mentioned by the Roman courts was a thief and swindler who was stoned to death. So how can the Romans be held responsible for the execution of a man who never existed ?

2. I thought the christians were the world experts in degrading execution of "pagans", witches, shamans, heretics, native American indians and fellow christians such as the gnostics, libertines, templars and cathars.

3. Now there's some real arrogance. I and only I am at the centre of my life and I and only I decide on how to spend my life and whom to spend it with or dedicate it to.

Missionaries are motivated by a message that they believe is important enough to share. That's why it's often referred to as good news.

Paul,

So are many others who want to convince us they hold the one and only truth. And good news to who ? To all of the in the name of a non-existing god slaugtered "pagans" and non-believers ? Never heard of the inquisition, the crusades or the conquistadores and of the victims of paedophile priests ?

By the way, I never said that I'm an atheist, nor that I want to convince anyone of my opinions or "beliefs" even though I think I have "good" and very reassuring news to offer too.

And following your line of reasoning I ask the following question : are there arborists on arbtalk that believe there are spirits living in trees that try to communicate with them while they're at work ?

And if they don't believe that (yet), would they become my followers and apostles if I would write a book saying that not only I, but some of my best friends also have communicated with them and we are sure they do exist ?

Atheists like to get together too by the looks of it! ... ridiculous ... a little respect ...

Paul,

Sure they do, but I have not seen them doing this on this website or go door to door like Jehova witnesses do or evangelize in countries where people hold other believes, did you ? And what in your well respected opinion motivates Jehova witnesses and missionaries then ?