Spruce Pirate

1 minute ago, spuddog0507 said:

been felling edgers last week for harvester and some of the brash on the outside of tree was all most a tree its self could of run a cs31 course just on the brash been using a 461 on 25" bar and still having to do heart cut a sweep round on one or two of them and if heart cut had,nt been done i dont think they would of gone over, its nice to see some one using the same practice as my self with cutting the brash back and leaving yourself a clear working area along the tree, nice vid  but again crap music saw reving its nuts of would be better .sorry.

Each to their own, I listen to a saw practically every day, I like a bit of music every now and then.

Got to love the outsiders with the big limbs!  2 - 3 fills per tree and you know you're working for your money!  I've seen us two man it with one going along with a wee saw knocking the branches off the another following with a bigger saw trimming the paps back flush with the stem.

Depends what sort of forestry you're doing. 

Big, oversize stuff I take two saws into the wood, big saw (24" bar at least) for felling, wee saw (18" bar) for snedding.  If it's only felling stuff for a harvester I'd have one saw, 20" or 24" bar depending on tree size, generally go with the bigger bar as it's surprising how many trees are bigger than 20" on a clearfell and the time it saves working from one side of the tree to the other, I know other folk that like the smaller bar though as the reckon the chain speed is faster.  Wee stuff I'd have an 18" bar for felling and snedding. Rarely do much full on snedding these days as it's mostly working to a harvester or fell to waste, if I was snedding I might think about a 15".  Back in the thinnings days it always used to be 13" bars and wee saws.

Currently running mostly Husky 560 and 576 or Dolmar 7910 for these bars, can use a 28" on the Dolly without too much bother or use the 395.  Stihls are mostly a waste of time for softwood felling IMO as they don't rev fast enough, tried the Dolmar 6100 and wasn't overly impressed with it for a production saw - more suited to firewood.  Husky 390 is a good popular saw for softwood clearfell.  I like the look of both the 572 and Stihl 462 but might wait a while before trying to make sure any issues with either are ironed out.  Both, so far, seem to have popular feedback.

Hardwood is a different game altogether, not my forte.

Video below was done with 560 on an 18" bar, perfect for that sort of size of stuff.

Bigger stuff, bigger saw.

16 minutes ago, Stephen Blair said:

I nearly did it! And the pole was at full extension! I have used the hard top roof of my mogs that I’ve owned for a platform for trimming large hedges over the years. What I would usually do is trim what I could from the ground, park the mog beside it, stick my step ladders against the mog, put the pole saw at full reach with the hedge cutter head or saw on. Lean it against the mog, go up the ladders, stand on the mog and pull the pole saw up and into the air.

I’d been doing this for over 10 years, no issues!

1 day I leant the polesaw against the mog with it running, I went up the ladder, grabbed the alloy extension and started to pull it towards myself to the 1 side, the triggers got jammed between the step ladder and mog, both orange levers got pressed and the saw picked up full revs with the saw around my knee hip area!

I shat myself, almost picked up my Darwin Award and didn’t believe that just happened.

 

I've done similar to this, but without catching the trigger, I'll be more careful if I'm doing it again! 

However, as far as the H&S officer in the OP is concerned she's not going to be happy with:

   a) leaning a ladder against something like a mog

   b) working from the top of a vehicle

   c) leaving a pole-pruner running while climbing from a) to b)

   d) pulling the pole-pruner up while it is running

so can't see the OP getting the chance to replicate the circumstances.

For what it's worth, when I did the certificate for the powered pole-pruner the assessor asked if we needed to wear saw trousers when using it.  He was quite happy with the reply that we didn't need to, but probably would be as likely to be using it in conjunction with a saw on the ground anyway.  Don't have that in writing, obviously.

9 hours ago, Khriss said:

There big question here on the training and recertification front, is the HSE and the fact that our death rate is still more than 1 : 1000. Which is the Action point where you have to change yr method, redesign that hoover or change that bridge design. On here we see horrible fails which can only be prevented by correct skills - no argument. How you achieve that ain't by cheating or blagging when one fine day yr bleeding to death. K

Totally agree this is HSE driven.  However, the current approach doesn't seem to be working - the accident and fatality rate is still too high.  Refresher training simply doesn't seem to be working, it only seems to be giving work to trainers while making the work-force poorer and generating ill will. 

I am not against training, I'm not even against refresher training, but it seems to be a box ticking exercise at present and I'm against that.  The whole system needs an overhaul if you ask me, but that's a massive subject and I'm not about to tackle it all here.  Bleeding to death while trying to blag your way through ^^^ is a pretty grizzly thought and one that we should pay more heed to.  Instead of assessing skills a day's refresher might be more effective if the effects of an accident are pointed out.  Quite graphically.  Pictures of accidents, lots of blood, broken bones, flattened body parts, families sitting on the couch missing dad (or mum) brings things home a lot quicker than just doing what you do for a living.  Most of us know how to cut trees, most of us don't like to think of the effects of an accident but getting us to do so might just make a difference.  My kids are 11, 8 and 4; what happens to them if I don't come home from work tomorrow?  That thought is likely to keep me a lot safer than any of the current refresher courses we have on offer!

The same does apply to driving, although the whole driving test vs chainsaw certification is not really relevant to anything in my opinion.

1 minute ago, openspaceman said:

Good, I did it three years ago and my last commercial climbing with saw was 3 or 4 years before that. I don't mind doing a bit of groundwork and did sit in with a group of chaps doing their initial cross cut and fell about 6 years ago.

 

The trouble with these refreshers is at over £150  a time and up to 2 days off work there is no way you can amortise the cost as you get older and looking to take it easy.

7 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Serious question -

What happens when you’ve got all the tickets?

Would you then have to refresh them all?

 

That could get a bit spendy.

Can't speak for the arb side of things, but forestry is a 3 - 5 year refresher.  3 years if part time saw use, 5 years if it's full time saw use.  Have to refresh the "highest ticket", so in my case windblow.  Could be small trees or large trees depending on which tickets you hold.  The refresher course is only one day, and cost should be around £125 - £150 (at least that's what I've been quoted and told others have paid).

There does seem to be a bit of confusion as to whether or not refreshing a windblow ticket actually counts as refresher for tree felling, but at the moment that seems to be the case and long may it continue as otherwise we'll be doing more refreshing than we will work!  And, yes, it will get a bit spendy!

Is it all a scam?  In my opinion yes.  It is all dressed up as keeping us safe and healthy, but the reality is that it is a scheme designed to keep company directors from having to face corporate manslaughter charges if something goes tits up and trainers have seen an opportunity to expand their revenue stream (I could be a lot less polite about trainers).  A safe cutter will still be safe at the end of a refresher course and a dangerous cutter will still be dangerous at the end of a refresher course, all that will have been achieved is that both will be a bit poorer.

Good work slipping "amortise" into a post.

1 minute ago, openspaceman said:

Chainsaw from MEWP I hope

Think that's OK for a climbing refresher, but don't think it would count for ground based tickets.  Not in a forestry context anyway.

3 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

CS47 was the last one I did  and it seemed to satisfy

What one is CS47?  MEWP?

Windblow would count, don't know the new number - possibly 302.  But you might actually be cheaper doing the refresher.  You'd need to do the large tree refresher for it to count.

On ‎28‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 18:16, shavey said:

 

 

here are the west coast felling spikes

 

 

You lose a bit of the bar length with these - but they look mean. 

They are pretty mean if you catch the troosers with them too! 

4 hours ago, shavey said:

Just checked Wallace and you had the Saw feb2015

a week before that Tom up near you had one as well

Feb 2015!  Wow.  Where does the time go? 

As I said before the saw has had a few bits changed, but given it's now 3 1/2 years old that shouldn't be a surprise.  Used mostly for forestry work, so a pretty hard environment to work in, running mostly 24" and 28" bars, occasionally down to a 20".  No complaints from me.

I got a Dolmar 7910 from Shavey on here a couple of years back.  Changed a few bits as they've broken, but no worse than any other saw that I've run.  Still going strong and still really like the saw.  Video of it here running a 28" bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC5gpOgCd0U

What length is the limb.  12" diameter but relatively short has a very different dynamic to 12" but very long.  Guessing you're talking about a fairly long limb if you're thinking of branch walking it to reduce it, but 6' long would be very different to 26' long in the way it reacts.  Plus all the other caveats about species.

I've drowned two a 353 and a 346.  353 dried out and fine, 346 needed a new pot and piston.  Both were running when they went for their swim.  Have dunked a couple when they've been switched off, dried out and no problems.

6 minutes ago, Khriss said:

If you are in and out n back n forth, of the woods an on the roads, they can drop a significant amount of crap on the road, from tyres an lil corners where it builds up. In winter yr not gonna see it on country roads till it too late, k

It's even worse if you leave the band-tracks on!

All the old FC machines were road registered as, technically, an FC road is the Queen's Highway and therefore all vehicles need to be road legal.  If you're using a vehicle in the wood (FC woods) this is still the case, needs to be taxed, insured and MOT'd.  The FC machines aren't registered anymore, but they definitely used to be, not sure what's changed in this.

I've escorted a forwarder up the road in the past when I worked for FC as a student - one van in front, one van behind, radio contact between the vans and the machine telling the driver to pull over if traffic was needing passed (in either direction).  Not a beacon or hi-vis vest in site but that was a few years ago now.  The main draw-back with a purpose built machine is the speed to move it.  If you're going any distance at all it is painfully slow.

On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 23:02, Big J said:

It's a shame, but it's just going for chip. It's been down long enough that whilst it's still heavy (sat on wet ground), it's starting to get blue stain running through some of it. Running the risk of rejection from the sawmills, chipwood it is. 

Chip was what I meant by 3m.

15 hours ago, outinthewood said:

I didn't make that clear ! lift and leave it ready to cut not hold and cut at the same time. 

Although it would be ok for us to have a machine hold a stem which was no matter what you did was going to fly you know when they are held up at a past balance point by the next root plate ? 

Did a sale couple of years ago which was to be subject to European audit so had no choice to cut as close as possible, ended up carrying a stiff brush and still wore out a new 28" chain in 2 days...nothing nice about it every other tree seemed to be set ready to do me ! Thankfully had a 1910 JD and 941/951 Komatsu to help .

What is the European audit about?  To my way of thinking a little bit of wastage on the stump in wind-blow should be allowed by any auditors on safety grounds, rather than trying to recover every last scrap of timber.

Stumps look fine (for windblow), but I'd be tidying up the end of the piece.  I know it's only 3m, but, standards and all that!

Are you down there for the next couple of weeks?  I might try and drop in and see you as I'll probably be down around Ae at some point.  Be interested to get a look at the machine.

4 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

But we don’t have much chose, we want to drive we have to buy fuel. For a lot of log buyers it’s not the only heating/hot water option but more of a luxury purchase or there are other fuel choices. 

If the playing fuel was level, you'd be right but increasing log prices properly in line with input costs would probably reduce sales below a sustainable level (as reducing the profit margin will also do as its starting to do)

I totally agree.  Far too many artificially low prices keep the price of logs down be it imports or hobby sellers.  Doesn't change the fact that if your costs go up you should be able to put your prices up.  Not actually trying to suggest it is that easy though.  I'm glad I'm not in the firewood business.

It seems every time the price of oil goes up petrol goes up in price at the pumps and heating oil goes up.  Shouldn't be any different in the log market.

2 hours ago, Andymacp said:

Does anyone have first hand experience or knowledge of a real life rescue ?
Just never heard of one

Not spectacular, but a couple of months ago on a job, climbers rope got wrapped around a peg that he'd left on the way up, tied in a perfect half hitch, climbing on a prussic system.  He was probably 50' - 60' in the canopy of a Scots pine unable to move down.  The peg was too high to reach with the ladder and the rope wouldn't flick off from the ground.  I climbed to the peg, un-wrapped his rope, descended and we carried on, easy peasy.  No threat to life, no time constraints but technically I climbed the tree and "rescued" him.  It could have been very embarrassing if I hadn't been able to climb.

As far as the legalities of having a certified climber on the ground goes I'm pretty sure anyone looking at it from a legal stand point would say that certified doesn't cut it, they would have to be certified and competent.  If it all goes horribly wrong and it comes down to and HSE investigation there's no way they'll look at a certificate for a rescue climber and say, "oh well, that's alright then".  All sorts of awkward questions will start being asked, like the level of competence of the rescue climber and how is this documented, how is their competence maintained, when was the last time a rescue was practice?  If you're sitting round the kitchen table with the men/women in shiny shoes with clipboards and a big frown on their intimidating faces you want to have a slightly better answer than, "uh, we put him through his climbing ticket 18 months ago, but he hasn't actually climbed a tree since then".

All the legal stuff is quite secondary to the poor guy up the tree needing rescued though!  I think most of us who have climbed for a while have probably done solo climbs or climbed knowing that the rescue climber isn't up to the job, myself included.  Its on the ground risk management.  If you're happy doing it then go ahead, but you need to remember if it all goes wrong you could be seven different shades of screwed, both legally and practically.

In addition to all the above:

Get a spill kit for the machine - keep one in the forwarder and bungee / ratchet strap one to the processor.  Could do the same with first aid kits, a bit larger than a personal kit.  Keep a site diary, note any problems, discussions with your cutters, etc - the FC just love paperwork.  Wear gloves!  They like the FISA Guide box ticking done too.

For occasional use I'm pretty sure that they recommend type C with the all round protection, even for ground work. 

As far as class 1 or 2 goes you'd have to work out your chain speed which isn't overly easy.  Bigger bar and chain is going to lower chain speed, changing pitch can affect the speed.  I did have a pair of class 2's for a while, but there's more choice in class 1 trousers so I'm back with them.  It's academic until you have an accident at which point you want as much protection as you can get.

I'd be really interested to see some comparison tests between the different classes of trousers and saws running at different chain speeds.  Don't know if there is any videos or such like out there.

Quad is a great tool for moving materials and tools around, I'd miss it if we didn't have it on the jobs that warrant it.  Easy to over-load though, and if you're carrying anything heavy you need to think about how to load it.  Not great on side slopes in my opinion, if you're on steep ground better going straight up and down.  We're running an old Kawasaki KLF 300, good enough for what I want, easy to pick up second hand for little cash.  If you're using it a lot might want to think about something bigger and newer, but more cash - easier to get something road registered I'd think though. 

Video taking saws, fuel etc out along a ride - quad ideal for this sort of thing, less good for timber extraction type work.