brewx1

You might not be saying that if you strike them with a saw, the manufacturers must state it for a reason.

Yes true, but probably saying that to cover their own backs more than anything. Not saying it's good practice, but I wouldn't scrap a pair of trousers because they had been in a dryer.

I always put them in the dryer, it's the only option to get them dry. Never cut my legs, so can't comment on any detrimental effect, sorry. I wouldn't worry about it.

Carving trees living trees, the right trees in the right place, I think would be fine. sure there would be arguments over which are the right trees and places, and arguments over whether its art or vandalism, same as graffiti art.

Anyhow, came across this site the other day and thought there was some great stuff well worth a look

Pooktre Tree Shapers ?

Not particularly carving, so apologies if it's a bit of an aside or if it has been posted before, still some impressive art from trees though.

Great, we can put our prices down!....oh...erm..cough..sorry.

The way I looked at it was me + one groundsmen incentive to get it done in two days would have been worth a punt! But anyway live an learn don't you? I originally quoted them 1200 but they nearly hard a heart attack went to £850 an that's still too expensive? Such is life hey?

I would be very cautious about dropping a quote by that amount unless you are changing the job spec. It makes it look like you were trying it on the first time round.

Ifor williams all day everyday, I've owned around 10 in total..............

And i bought one of those Ifors off you probably 4 or 5 years ago, the trailer gets well used, its probably over 12 years old now and there's no reason why it won't last for much much longer yet. Definitely quality built.

When I was 22 I loved in a bedsit and was working 100 plus hours a week shovelling coal 100 feet inside coal boats, I wanted to be 1 thing, a tree surgeon.

What I didn't realise that climbing ladders and shovelling was perfect training for a tree rat, when I did get a chance I was faster and fitter than the others so got ahead very quickly and I knew I was never going to work shovelling in the dark again!!!

Stick in there folks, stay positive and look for oppertunities to further your career.

Very tricky subject ... Choosing my words carefully as I don't wish to upset anyone from either side of the employment fence.

 

I think the bottom line is any newly qualified climber is going to earn less with a chainsaw than they would sat on a check out. It is a very sad scenario that it has to be like that but it is what it is. My car is on it's way out at the moment (Acer roverheadgasketsyndromeacus) and I'm not going to be able to afford to replace it earning what I do. I'd be in the same position in a shelf stacking job, but that would be the situation for the rest of my time in that job. I see it as an incentive to put 110% effort in every day until I am worth more money, then I will look back and think wow I don't know how I scraped through but now I have valuable skills that make me recognised as being worth a decent wage.

 

The black and white is that people (customers) don't want to pay more just because its a dangerous job. I earnt more when I was litter picking for a landscaping firm ... at least I love what I do now!

 

Britain is on it's a**e, hence why I want to abandon ship and learn in a nicer part of the world in a lifestyle where I can actually live on a progressing climbers wage. I'm 22 years old and having to be supported by my parents when I want to work hard and be independant, its shocking ... the opportunities for college leavers are just not there in this part of the country in a sense of finding a job that can keep you on your on two feet, there is no space in the industry.

Precisely this.It's shameful that young folk feel they have to leave either the industry or the country to stand any chance of actually being able to support themselves.

Best of luck chap.

The minimum wage is IMO totally fair. It is after all, a MINIMUM wage. There is nothing preventing employers paying more for the right person.

 

Anyone who accepts work at the minimum wage is either desperate to work at any cost, in which case he will accept it, or he does not posess the technical or 'people' skills to warrant a higher paid job.

 

Those who accept work at the minimum wage should not grumble. If they want to earn more, then they need to market themselves and their skills to prospective employers. If they are as good as they think they are they will find plenty of employers who are currently desperate for good staff and willing to pay the right money to the right person.

 

Employers who ONLY pay the minimum are only causing problems to themselves as they will never have a happy and efficient workforce.

 

I pay my casual (one day a week) van driver £12.00 per hour, and £10.00 per hour to the person who washes the machines off prior to service. They are both totally reliable and happy in their work, worth every penny to me.

 

Well, thats my opinion anyway.

I agree with much of this and certainly with your views on employment. If I was in the situation, I'd work at minimum wage sooner than claiming dole. How much effort I'd put into that work though would be another matter and depend on a few more factors.

A small company with pleasant folk really maybe unable to pay more I could work for just as hard as in any other better paid job. I'd have to jump ship if a better opportunity came along, but that's the way it is.

On the other hand if It was for a company where you get the feeling that minimum wage is being paid because that's all they need to pay, I really would not be putting much effort into it at all.

I imagine most people would feel the same

The best way to improve your financial situation is to ask others how they have done so.

Become the boss, Sell wood chip, start an arb forum. Then you can decide what wage to pay. Most people I know have gone out of there way to help me when I have asked. But you need to be positive a more productive thread could have been "how can I improve my pay.

At 43 its going to be hard to climb every day I know but it dose n,t mean you cant work in the Arb industry you just need to find solutions there will be lots of ideas here if the questions are asked in the rigt way.

If that was directed at me then you've missed a bit. I'm not looking for employment or to improve my pay (although more would be nice obviously) Actually, I could improve my earnings by paying less for labour, I could get it cheaper, if not even some for free, but I couldn't morally justify doing that.

I own my own house, (apart, I suppose, from the portion of it still technically owned by the loveable Royal bank of Scotland). If i wanted to, I could stop working in arb tomorrow and be working doing something else the day after, still earning a living. I'm in a great situation.

So please, get the point that it's not for my benefit, or because of my situation that I'm having a dig at low wages.

And at 42 I still love climbing trees.

 

makes you wonder what will happen to an industry if only the young and less experienced knowledgeable populate it?

 

Is there room for us old dogs?

Absolutely spot on.

Would you want there to be room for you? or is it best to leg it now?

good point raised there about earning the same money as when you were a young 'un. There IS good money to be earnt if your living at home with your mum, no kids etc. Thats why this industry is great for young lads...work hard and pull the money in.

The cost of living makes it hard for us older buggers with the mortgage, kids and all the other bills...thats life.

I've been freelancing for about 10 years, I'm now going back to running my own train set again...I just can't earn enough to make ends meet unless I run my own jobs. If I was 25 and at home with me Mum I'd be driving a nice car instead of an old Disco thats for sure!

How is this industry great for young lads???????

you can have a bit of spare cash as long as you are living at home with your folks?

and to progress from there?

Thanks for the useful info guys, and 15 miles of hedging sounds reasonable qualification to me!

Can anyone experienced in this field give me an idea of what the max diameter of trunk that can be worked with successfully with hawthorn? Also, have seen recommendations that it is not done this time of year, if that' s the case when would be good? Nesting could be an issue but are there other factors that make this time not good?

Oh, max diameter that someone experienced could comfortably work with. I've never tried it but would like to know what is possible. Any info much appreciated thanks.

I had someone phone me yesterday as it happens with a similar problem. These things happen sometimes then clear themselves. Please let me know if it doesnt sort itself out in the next day and i'll have the server techs look into it.

All working fine this morning Ta

mmm....man up people!

 

used to work for a guy who always said...when men were men!.

 

too many pussy's out there now. Simple as this.. there is A LOT of competition out there and if you can not keep up then get out of the game.

 

I have taken on so many climber wannabees over the last few years...and maybe 5% of them were ok climbers.

 

I think they should tell them in college before they start the course..that only 5% of them will make it as good climbers and the other 95% will be ok groundsman because thats what i see.

 

Rough i know! but its true. doesn't matter about your age and circumstances..an employer is looking for someone to make there life easier and make them more profit..if a 18 year old with 3 years exp can do the job for less than a 35 year old then in a competitive industry the 18 year old will get the job.

 

I would love to pay top dollar for exp guys...but i can't afford it as i must put this onto the price of jobs.

 

too much Vodka tonight..but hope this makes sense.

Czloweik, I guess with your name and passion for vodka you could be east european?. I've worked with east europeans and found them great, hardworking and willing to work for next to nothing. Unfortunately many were paid a pittance because employers knew they could get away with it, not because times were tough and that's all they were able to pay. That's sort of a similar situation to what I'm moaning on about here.

I'm not complaining about my personal circumstances, I've got nothing to complain about.

I just don't believe there is any justification for paying appalling wages. sure there are many excuses that you could come up with for it, but I think in a lot of cases that's all they are, excuses.

Pay younger, inexperienced people less, or older inexperienced people for that matter, that's fair enough. All I'm really saying is, for whoever, it should be a fair days pay for a fair days work. It just seems mine and some others opinions of what that is differ.

Hope the head is ok this morning:001_smile:

It makes me sick to hear somebody berating an employer for offering a job in a free market. Do you realise how hard it is to employ somebody? Most business owners don't get sick pay, don't get 6 weeks paid holiday and all the other rubbish but in return work 3 times as hard as most of their staff.

 

I've employed a lot of guys and some have been excellent but NONE have worked as hard as me. NONE have cared as much as I did. NONE have seen further than 3 months ahead but all have been keen to take their allotted holiday WHATEVER the state of the business.

 

Employing people is not US against THEM. Or at least it shouldn't be. Employees sometimes maybe need to have a think about the people who pay their wages. What are your bosses giving up in these hard times to make sure you are still in a job? You might just be suprised.

 

I would expect that 99% of bosses are caring and fair people, not out to fleece their staff for every penny. Their staff probably get paid before they do. I know mine do. This 1970's socialist crap needs to be consigned to the history books. It's just not like that any more in my view.

Yes I do realise how hard it is to employ somebody, I've done it, probably will again. Admittedly I don't currently, I use self employed subbies It just suits me now as I don't do trees full full time. It is still the vast proportion of what I do but I couldn't offer someone a full time job.

Why is anybody surprised that their employees don't work as hard or care as much as they do, It's not their business. That's not to say there aren''t any great employees out there, there are, just few and far between. One thing is for sure though, the less you pay them the less likely it is you will find them and keep them, they will usually be people with enough about them to know when they're getting a rough deal and those very able to go and find something else.

So there's a lot of employers moaning about the quality of staff but at the same time offering very meagre wages...hmmm

I don' t share your opinion that 99% of bosses are fair and caring. There are a lot of naturally greedy people about unfortunately and if they think they can get away with paying very little they will, and come up with excuses like 'well it's the climate' and the more acceptance there is of that, the worse it will become.

I'm sure I could pay less to people for a hard days work, but personally I wouldn't feel happy about it.

Mark is obviously been shot in the face, that isn't him, it is right and sensible.

 

 

 

I cannot believe that you think £7.50 is a bad wage for a proper job, not subby/cash in hand/occasional day here and there stuff!

 

 

Some people need a boot in the arse.

I do think £7.50 is a bad wage for a proper job that not just anyone can walk into off the street, i.e they've had to go through training and get qualified. nobody's got a big enough boot that will make me change that opinion

Should the assembly worker at Speke putting wheel nuts on Freelanders be paid more because he is 40+ with kids? Or should he be paid the going rate for the job?

 

Your logic is lost on me. If you pick a random ASDA or B&Q store you will find a right mix of various skills and life/work experience all working for the minimum wage. If something more suitable or better paid comes along then they have a choice.

 

Attacking employers for offering employment in this climate seems barking so I suspect I have not understood your point properly.

You haven't, I'm not looking for a job.

I maybe think companies should be doing more , like better pay for employees, to benefit probably the industry as a whole in the long term. Yes supply and demand I know and the arguments a bit of a plate of spaghetti. And I don't like getting posts wiped

A bit of decorum would have been advised IMO, should have contacted Steve before posting to make sure.

 

Pay is pay, take it or leave it. Realistically I'm probably on no more than 14000 annul, it's more about the benefits for me, the use of works trailers for clearing rubbish from my house, use of tools if I need them, and the use of workshop space.

 

I'm happy for the pay I get and it damn well beats the dole, I would be a drunk or on hard drugs if I couldn't work and don't know what I'd do without it.

 

We have a feedom of choosing what work we do and are not forced into working, I like working as it helps me sleep at night. Knowing I have put in a full day.

 

So if you want to moan about any pay getting from tree work I suggest you stick to theatre work and leave it, I'm sure there is an unemployed Person out there that would jump at the chance to work in this industry.

 

Sorry if the last post sounds crude or in some way out of line but it's the way I feel about it.

I'm not having a moan about my pay getting from tree work, I'm not employed and not looking to be, I do ok from it. Yep, got freedom of choice, and freedom of speech too.? If you want to put up and shut up that's up to you.

There seems to be a lot of whining on Arbtalk about money.

 

We are probably all worth twice what we earn, but that's the way it is.

 

A big company on here recently offered about £7.5/hr to a newbie and were slagged off. Look at the amount of posts from lads offering to work for nothing!

 

As long as you are offering minimum wage, the rest is down to choice.

 

I wish I was 18 again giving my Mam £20 a week all found, but just because you're in your 40's with 3 kids doesn't make you worth any more to the bloke who has to come up with your wage every week.

yep, I agree with you there, but these companies should expect to get slagged off, I pay a brash dragger more than that. I'm self emp in arb, I couldn't have someone working for me on that pay. Its wrong.

I'm more concerned that voicing an opinion on it got my posts wiped and seemed to lock me out of arbtalk, although it appears that that may just be a coincidence

how can you post if your accounts blocked!!??

Yes, account is probably wrong wording, but arbtalk doesn't like my ip address it seems, hence I could only get here via a proxy

What on earth are you talking about your account being blocked?

Funny how I can only get on via a proxy server. I may be wrong, If so, sorry.

Ok, guess as my account is blocked I upset some sensitive souls with comments made on the employment forum regarding what I consider derisory pay.

EVERYBODY on here has their moan about tree surgeons being undervalued, but you obviously can’t comment on that if you’re going to upset the wrong people,

To put things in perspective. As well as trees, I work part time in a theatre, unskilled stage hand stuff. I do it because I enjoy it. Theatre work is notoriously low paid but it’s better than what was been offered for qualified skilled, semi skilled (whatever) tree surgeons, who’ve probably spent their own money to get those qualifications. I’m 42, but the same pay scale applies to a 21 year old.

David Riding, I fully understand employment costs, but that is no excuse, costs are the same for employers in any industry.

As a 21 year old, yes I would have been happy with £18400, More than I was earning then, by around 800 quid . Unskilled labour, construction related…… but that was over twenty years ago!!!!!!!

So I stand by my comments, If it upsets anyone then the best I can do is offer a hanky.

Or am I wrong????????? Will this post get wiped too, before anyone can tell me?

They melt too easy. Got holes in both legs, straight through all layers and my skin within a couple of weeks. Wouldn't agree that they're particularly tough, got small nicks and tears all over very quickly too. Comfortable and lightweight, drying quickly. No leg pocket which would be useful as hard to use others with harness on. Probably wont buy another pair. Ok for money I suppose.