Status of Groundy

[SPC Trees]

If paying your self-employed groundy for a few days a week do you pay in cash and take the hit by not claiming it as an expense or do you use the proper CIS system of using subcontractors and take 20% before paying them?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

If paying your self-employed groundy for a few days a week do you pay in cash and take the hit by not claiming it as an expense or do you use the proper CIS system of using subcontractors and take 20% before paying them?

 

 

I think CIS would only apply if you are on a construction site.

 

Have you registered as a CIS contractor?

 

I've had a guts full of the helpline (that isn't!). It's near impossible to get someone to answer the bloody phone!

[SPC Trees]

I think CIS would only apply if you are on a construction site.

 

Have you registered as a CIS contractor?

 

I've had a guts full of the helpline (that isn't!). It's near impossible to get someone to answer the bloody phone!

 

 

Me too, it's quite literally shocking.

I'm assuming tree surgery and arboriculture in general does not fall under the CIS scheme unless I'm working on a building site that IS under the scheme?!

[C.J]

If he truly is self employed,he should invoice you.

[SPC Trees]

If he truly is self employed,he should invoice you.

 

 

Yep as I thought. Thanks CJ

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Me too, it's quite literally shocking.

I'm assuming tree surgery and arboriculture in general does not fall under the CIS scheme unless I'm working on a building site that IS under the scheme?!

 

 

Yes mate, domestic / day to day work generally doesn't have to be through CIS.

 

If it's a site clearance for development it most likely will be CIS. I just registered as a "contractor" so I could bid on a site. It was not too troublesome getting registered, but trying to contact HMRC with queries etc is hellish on the phone / website.

 

If the main contractor deducts CIS from your invoice and you have "self employed" people giving you invoices for their contributions to your output, then you ought to deduct CIS from them too. You need to be registered as a "contractor" in order to deduct from your subbies and they all need to be registered as "sub contractors" so that you can make your deductions. Plus you also need to be registered as a sub contractor so that the main contractor can make deductions from you.

 

It's an outrage that (a) it's so bloody admin heavy and (b) it's close to impossible to talk to CIS help desk by phone. Talk about stifling beaurocracy! I've just been through all this in the last month and it's made me wonder if it's worth the effort.

 

If you're not on a site and CIS doesn't apply, it's still worth asking your subbies to include their UTR on their invoice. It shows due diligence if HMRC question your "expenses" for hired in labour. Apparently, if you show expenses for hired in labour and HMRC find that they have not declared their income properly on their self assessment, HMRC will deduct their income tax (for that element) from you!

 

That's just my limited experience, doubtless there will be some better informed (or highly opinionated) views to follow....

[SPC Trees]

Yes mate, domestic / day to day work generally doesn't have to be through CIS.

 

If it's a site clearance for development it most likely will be CIS. I just registered as a "contractor" so I could bid on a site. It was not too troublesome getting registered, but trying to contact HMRC with queries etc is hellish on the phone / website.

 

If the main contractor deducts CIS from your invoice and you have "self employed" people giving you invoices for their contributions to your output, then you ought to deduct CIS from them too. You need to be registered as a "contractor" in order to deduct from your subbies and they all need to be registered as "sub contractors" so that you can make your deductions. Plus you also need to be registered as a sub contractor so that the main contractor can make deductions from you.

 

It's an outrage that (a) it's so bloody admin heavy and (b) it's close to impossible to talk to CIS help desk by phone. Talk about stifling beaurocracy! I've just been through all this in the last month and it's made me wonder if it's worth the effort.

 

If you're not on a site and CIS doesn't apply, it's still worth asking your subbies to include their UTR on their invoice. It shows due diligence if HMRC question your "expenses" for hired in labour. Apparently, if you show expenses for hired in labour and HMRC find that they have not declared their income properly on their self assessment, HMRC will deduct their income tax (for that element) from you!

 

That's just my limited experience, doubtless there will be some better informed (or highly opinionated) views to follow....

 

 

Kevin,

 

Spot on, nice little summary.

 

Yes, I did do a bit of reading on it and once CIS registered you still need to declare what you have paid to the subbies, even if you have not paid anyone that month. I believe the deadline is the 20th of each month and there's penalties for going over. We have the Labour Party to thank for that one!

 

Cheers for your input.

 

As you say I'm sure the 'Arbtalk crew' will be here soon to tell us otherwise.