Insurance for Arb. Student.

[Rupe]

Yes of course they are if the job warrants it (in the customers opinion that is, fences don't really warrant it IMO!). But leave that to companies that need insurance for larger things and for employees and council work etc. There seems to be many people payign for insurance when they work SE for other comapnies and do a few bits on the side.

 

 

Who's making money out of tree work these days? Us, or the insurance companies?

 

So now we need insurance for advertising and our reputation? Forgive me for repeatign myself but insurance should be for insurance, not for the tax man, or to help others get a contract. Or for advertising or reputation.

 

"oh, he must be good he's insured" crap!

Edited July 15, 2009 by Rupe

[peter_t]

"oh, he must be good he's insured" crap!

 

no 'he's not insured he must be a cowboy'

 

pete

[Slicx]

Where do I start!!!!!

 

Are you going to be a sub contractor?? Answer is no you are not!!

 

You are goign to be sefl employed working for various companies with those companies, so you will be covered by there insurance.

 

A sub contractor is a totally differnet thing so forget that.

 

You don't need insurance, you're still a student for god sake. Unless you are takign on you rown jobs why would you be insured? If you are the gorundie on a job for someone else and a branch goes through the garage and desptroys the aston martin, is that going ot be your fault? Of course not, its however is doing the job, not the climber or the groundie but the company who supplied the quote for the work.

 

I've got a good window you can throw 400 quid out if you want!

 

 

Wow, now I'm just confused.

 

My 'employer' (It's work experience more than anything, as part of my course) for the year has told me that I will be working as a sub-contractor for his company, which also means I will be self-employed.

 

He's also told me that his PLI is only valid if the sub-contractors (his words again) he employs (me, in this case) also have their own PLI. In other words he says we both need PLI to be covered by his.

 

Yeah I will be just a Groundsman for most of the year I imagine, but from what he's told me that doesn't change anything.

 

I'd like to figure this out now this discussion has sparked off, please can you (or anyone) advise further?

 

Thanks.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Slicx

[Marc]

Maybe i've muddied th waters for you Slicx, even now i'm re-evaluating just how worth while my own pli is and wether i'll renew.

 

I think its plainly be said here that you don't need your own pli as you can work under his pli providing he has proper cover!!

 

It sounds a little suspicious, are you going to be using your own equipment, truck, chippers running the job yourself etc?? this is bona fide sub contracting.

If your using his kit as in trucks, chippers, saws whatever and following his spec then your self-employed.

 

At least thats how i understand it!

[Rupe]

TO SLICX

 

Sure, forget my little rant, I'll try and help.

 

I'm sure that any genuine sub contractors that he (your future boss) uses would have to have PL and that that would be a condition of his insurance policy, thats fine that all makes sense.

 

The problem is in the understanding of what a sub contractor is. And you are definaltly not a sub contractor. Your boss may be confused here, when he says you will be workign as a sub contractor and self employed he's wrong. He either wants to not have the hassle of paying your tax and holiday pay etc. in which case he's taking advantage of you or if your genuinly going to be self employed i.e. workign for other people and free to work as many or as few days for him as YOU choose then thats fine to be self employed but your not a subcontractor.

 

If I win a huge contract to do railway line work all round the country, I would find suitable companies in each area and give them the work for percentage of what I get and those companies would be sub-contracting to me and responsible for their own actions and require public liability etc.

 

On a smaller scale, if I win a job cutting down a tree for mrs smith down the road for 500pounds and I got you in as a subcontractor, I would give you that job for say 400 pounds and you would go and do it. You woudl then be a sub contractor and you would have to go with your own staff, truck, chipper and of course insurance.

 

Working with a company as a groundie is not sub contracting. You are not taking the job from them and going off to do it in your own time. You are workign for that company self employed or not you are covered by there insurance and by the employees liability.

 

The boss takes responsiblity for the job beign done and if you screw up then its his fault, the same for freelance climbers etc. its up to the boss to decide who to employ and how to get the job done, if they screw up then he screwed up and his insurance covers it or finds him negligable in some way.

 

So to summarise, your boss is right and sub contractors he uses must have PL. I'm sure that is written very clearly in his insurance policy. But you are not a sub contractor.

 

Does that help?

Edited July 16, 2009 by Rupe

[Rupe]

Hi MArc, you beat me to it. HAve you really been thinkign abou tit all day today? Sorry about my tone yesterday. I am mostly just practising for being a cantanckerous old &*%$ in my old age, and so far the practice is going well!!

 

Don't take anything personally. When I said its your boss that make sthe mistake if you screw up I mean any boss any self employed climber.

[Slicx]

Maybe i've muddied th waters for you Slicx, even now i'm re-evaluating just how worth while my own pli is and wether i'll renew.

 

I think its plainly be said here that you don't need your own pli as you can work under his pli providing he has proper cover!!

 

It sounds a little suspicious, are you going to be using your own equipment, truck, chippers running the job yourself etc?? this is bona fide sub contracting.

If your using his kit as in trucks, chippers, saws whatever and following his spec then your self-employed.

 

At least thats how i understand it!

 

That helps, thanks.

 

As for the question, no, I'll be using everything of his except for PPE.

 

I think he thinks that I may start going off on my own like a sub-contractor would later in the year, but that's just not going to happen. For one, there's no way I could afford my own truck, and I'll be back at Uni next September, so that's just not practical. This is just work experience for three days a week

 

So in all, from what you all have said, I won't be sub-contracting at all, and don't need to fork out £400-600 for insurance.

 

Many thanks.

 

Edit: Rupe, we must have been writing at the same time as I didn't see your post. That is very helpful and I think you've saved me a lot of money (to me, as a student). I will just need to bring this up with him now. Thanks!

Edited July 16, 2009 by Slicx

[Rupe]

no 'he's not insured he must be a cowboy'

 

pete

 

I dont agree with that totally.

 

Being a cowboy is when you say your insured but your not.

 

If you are honest and say your not insured yet as your company is in its first year or not big enough, or not chasing council contracts then thats ok, the customer can decide for themselves.

 

A cowboy does poor work and lies to get the work i.e says trees are dangerouse etc etc.

[Rupe]

Slicx. Are you tied to him for the three days a week? The same three days every week? If so then you shouldn't be self employed either. He coudl easily employ you part for those three days a week. I doubt you'd pay any tax beign a student and as for holiday pay, well you will be entitled to some and that comes form him paying you a little less each day and not from paying you for days your not working like soem bosses seem to think it is.

 

If your happy beign self employed thne fine, I don't want to stree you anymore than I have! But being SE means that you should tell him waht days you want to work and when and work for others too.

 

Supplying your own PPE is fine. Employed or otherwise thats abetween you and the employer, his only responsibility is to ensure you wear it.

[Slicx]

Slicx. Are you tied to him for the three days a week? The same three days every week?

 

 

No, I'm not tied to any days, that's just the average I'll be working a week with him. I'll be looking to work with other people to hopefully fill out the week.

 

I think the issue has been solved thanks to you and a few helpful others. All I need to do now is explain to my boss that I'm not capable of being a sub-contractor and so are OK insurance-wise.

 

Thanks again all.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Slicx