GPS / PDA / Data Capture?

[10 Bears]

I'm interested to find out what tech other surveyors/consultants use for completing tree surveys. I'm looking to buy a system, but would like some information on what people use, are happy with, levels of back up service from the supplier etc.

 

I should point out though, that the budget is very modest (ideally only a few hundred pounds), so although I would really like one - I don't think a Trimble GeoXT at around £12K is going to be on the offering!

 

The tasks/spec I'm looking for are roughly:

1. Used to complete tree surveys/data capture
   
2. Desktop support software to enable creating data dictionary or bespoke form for data collection
   
3. Geo-referencing capability/accurate GPS (possbily with post processing)
   
4. Good battery life
   
5. Extras? eg photo, voice annotation, WiFi, Bluetooth etc.
   
6. Good sized screen
   
7. Weather proof(ish!)
   

 

I'm not fussy about the brand, but have experience with Thales, Trimble and Leica - but I'd really like to know what you chaps recommend from your experience. If you could also provide supplier information too, I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks...

[daltontrees]

I'm interested to find out what tech other surveyors/consultants use for completing tree surveys. I'm looking to buy a system, but would like some information on what people use, are happy with, levels of back up service from the supplier etc.

 

I should point out though, that the budget is very modest (ideally only a few hundred pounds), so although I would really like one - I don't think a Trimble GeoXT at around £12K is going to be on the offering!

 

The tasks/spec I'm looking for are roughly:

1. Used to complete tree surveys/data capture
   
2. Desktop support software to enable creating data dictionary or bespoke form for data collection
   
3. Geo-referencing capability/accurate GPS (possbily with post processing)
   
4. Good battery life
   
5. Extras? eg photo, voice annotation, WiFi, Bluetooth etc.
   
6. Good sized screen
   
7. Weather proof(ish!)
   

 

I'm not fussy about the brand, but have experience with Thales, Trimble and Leica - but I'd really like to know what you chaps recommend from your experience. If you could also provide supplier information too, I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks...

 

A few hundred quid? You're having a laugh!

[daltontrees]

A few hundred quid? You're having a laugh!

 

Meant to say, I have just put a set-up together on a shoestring budget, cost me £1.5k. That's with legit software licenses and kit that can withstand 6 hours in the rain (yesterday) and being dropped 4m onto rocks (today). You get what you pay for. If you magage ot for a few hundred, patent it and don't tell anyone how you did it.

[10 Bears]

I can see your point, ie out of the box solutions are commercially expensive, but there are alternatives that I don't mind sharing (no need for a patent!), for instance, I can write a DBMS in SQL to handle the back end, and a front end GUI/form can be knocked together in Excel.

 

The whole thing can be run from MS Office Mobile - which is fairly standard across a whole range of GPS/PDAs etc. nowadays. As I have the required software for this already - and spare licences, this solution wont cost me anything more than I already have invested (other than time of course). So if I go down this route, all I would really need is a GPS/PDA.

 

Hence back to the original question ie what are other people using in terms of tech and how are they finding it?

 

Jules, Do you have any more information on your new set up? £1.5K is more than I want to pay admittedly, but I'm still interested in what/how you put it together.

[daltontrees]

I can see your point, ie out of the box solutions are commercially expensive, but there are alternatives that I don't mind sharing (no need for a patent!), for instance, I can write a DBMS in SQL to handle the back end, and a front end GUI/form can be knocked together in Excel.

 

The whole thing can be run from MS Office Mobile - which is fairly standard across a whole range of GPS/PDAs etc. nowadays. As I have the required software for this already - and spare licences, this solution wont cost me anything more than I already have invested (other than time of course). So if I go down this route, all I would really need is a GPS/PDA.

 

Hence back to the original question ie what are other people using in terms of tech and how are they finding it?

 

Jules, Do you have any more information on your new set up? £1.5K is more than I want to pay admittedly, but I'm still interested in what/how you put it together.

 

Second hand Geo XT, new Pocket GIS license nd various bits and bobs plus an oldish laptop as I had to have Active Sync and Windows Mobile and prefer the old Excel. Am also using free trial period dwg/dxf converters as I don't need them often enogh to justify buying a CAD license. And none of tis produces plotting of RPAs or crown spreads or CEZs.

 

I nwold accept that if you have the technical expertise and time and determination you could crack some of this a lot cheaper but if you were to put your normal charge-out rate against the time you are likely to spend on it you might like me wish you had just bought PT Mapper/GIS and a new Juno bnecause it would have been cheaper in the end. From recent experience using a Juno and Geo on the same survey job, the Juno is quicker and if that can improve your productivity on site by even 5% a day it will soon pay dividends.

 

Tablets aint waterproof (even with Gumboy covers) and the batteries don't last (and I mean after a few months of cold weather their life shortens dramatically) and they will get damaged and they are just about useless in the cold when gloves are needed. A stylus solution is the only one. And not one of these pantsy capacitative ones, miy lat one lasted less than a day outdoors. I use a Dell Axim pda for collecting data with a spreadsheet for sites that have already been mapped by me on the Geo, it is easy to merge spreadsheets afterwards. But they are hopeless in the wet and using them through a waterproof cover is torture for me.

 

It is the use of something in the cold and rain day after day that means the only solution for me is based around an indestructible stylus-based long battery life completely waterproof mapper e.g Trimble/Thales.

 

Using Pocket GIS can be teeth-splittingly frustrating at first, try reading the operating manuals (there are two) and you will soon lose the will to live. Try as I have (I've almost cracked it) editing and creating your own translation scheme and you will be punching the walls. Tey are based on an old file format that operates on a zero tolerance of mistakes basis in the programming. But because it can be set up with drop-down pick-lists (these are grenerally freely avalable, pm me and I can tell you where to get one legitimately or you can have one of mine) it can vastly speed up data collection and you might soon find that 99% of the time a big screen is not needed. Besides, try shoving a big screen in your pocket.

 

I'd be interested to hear if you go for a DIY solution and if you achieve it and at what cost.

[Amelanchier]

We run Pocket GIS on old HTC phones (Jade / Touch 3G) and then upload to Pear technology's PTMapper PRO and then to AutoCAD LT 2007.

 

Can't recall all the prices but PGIS was £500, PTMapper PRO is about £750, AutoCAD LT2007 often goes for about £400-500 second hand on ebay and the HTC Touch 3G is about £50 BNIB. Accurate and quick GPS, robust enough to handle knocks, bluetooth to link with our trupulse, lightweight, easily recharged and cheap enough to not worry about being too precious with it. You can even use it as a phone... It's not waterproof but then who wants to be surveying in weather bad enough to test that? Not me anyway. So all in = £1800.

 

I wrote my own translation schemes and survey themes using PGIS when we had it at the council. Days of my life I'll never get back. We now have PTSurvey which IIRC comes free with the PTMapper software - its basically a third party GUI for writing survey templates in PGIS and it's childlishly simple. I can make a custom survey template, and have it uploaded, tested, debugged and ready to go out on site within twenty odd minutes.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Amelanchier

[Amelanchier]

Regarding the weatherproof issue, I have just realised that I am lucky enough to undertake over 90% of my work within the driest region in the UK. Others may not be so lucky and you truly have my sympathies The Touch 3G can sit in a clear drybag like this one https://www.alpkit.com/products/aqua-wallit with no impact on the functionality of the touchscreen.

[daltontrees]

Regarding the weatherproof issue, I have just realised that I am lucky enough to undertake over 90% of my work within the driest region in the UK. Others may not be so lucky and you truly have my sympathies The Touch 3G can sit in a clear drybag like this one https://www.alpkit.com/products/aqua-wallit with no impact on the functionality of the touchscreen.

 

Yeah, lucky you! I often have to spend whole days surveying in constant rain, puddles of water colecting on teh screen and having to be wiped off every 30 seconds. Also I have done days on end in sub-zero temperatures when a swipe-screen device is pretty hopeless because if you took your gloves off to use them you would literally have frostbite by mid morning.

 

There's definitely not just one right solution, but in the west of scotland I assume the worst and have chosen kit accordingly.

 

The Touch £G seems unbelievably cheap, I think it is now discontinued but can still be bought. Does it import GPS co-ordinates into a spreadsheet automatically?

[daltontrees]

I wrote my own translation schemes and survey themes using PGIS when we had it at the council. Days of my life I'll never get back. We now have PTSurvey which IIRC comes free with the PTMapper software - its basically a third party GUI for writing survey templates in PGIS and it's childlishly simple. I can make a custom survey template, and have it uploaded, tested, debugged and ready to go out on site within twenty odd minutes.

 

Oh the pain, I have been opening the .tsp scheme files in Notepad, manually adding, amending and deleting and moving around lines of code and then reconverting to .tsp and adding to PGIS. I am currently just about there with the perfect .tsp which groups data logically for different types of survey so that it can be used for any survey because you can just skip whole pages in the field with a touch of the stylus. Means I can import and process any survey into my standard spreadsheet without amending it too. Sure, I have to hide some unused fields for reporting, but these are set as standard 'hides' too.

 

Did you find any tricks for manually adjusting .tsps? I have a feeling there's no shortcut.

[Amelanchier]

Yeah, lucky you! I often have to spend whole days surveying in constant rain, puddles of water colecting on teh screen and having to be wiped off every 30 seconds. Also I have done days on end in sub-zero temperatures when a swipe-screen device is pretty hopeless because if you took your gloves off to use them you would literally have frostbite by mid morning.

 

There's definitely not just one right solution, but in the west of scotland I assume the worst and have chosen kit accordingly.

 

Thankfully, it is a rare day that I survey anything in the rain. We also have a company policy on low temps insofar as we operate reduced survey durations during cold spells (anything with a met-office "feels like" temp of below 0 degrees C). On the whole I've found clients quite reasonable with explaining those kind of delays - I think it safe to say that I have it easy and am not likely to relocate to compete in your area!

 

The Touch £G seems unbelievably cheap, I think it is now discontinued but can still be bought. Does it import GPS co-ordinates into a spreadsheet automatically?

 

Yep discontinued but still plenty available on ebay etc. I don't think it could log GPS co-ordinates natively but there is still quite a back catalogue of freeware that might be capable; e.g., Free Top 10 Windows Mobile 6.1 Classic GPS Downloads

 

Oh the pain... Did you find any tricks for manually adjusting .tsps? I have a feeling there's no shortcut.

 

In short - no. But I found the support staff reasonably helpful when I sent them my bloated efforts by email.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Amelanchier