Gang members hard ?

[LancsMike]

It is going with the thread because several times people, including Dean have said how bad things are now and that there are scumbags all over getting away with it - I was just proving the point that there has been scumbags in the past, they are around now and will be in the future.

 

The next step out from that showing how the media would rather you believe it was worse now because of the fact of Social and Media Engineering and you would be amazed how many people make a judgement call on what they see in the news rather than reading several articles or looking things up ie the '' Hoody '' stigma teenagers get slapped with.

 

I could talk about my own personal experiences and friend's who have done some deplorable acts but at the end of the day it doesn't really have anything to do with it - we all make good decisions and bad decisions all the time as I am sure you have and Dean has and many other folks on Arbtalk, only difference is I'm not going to sit and pretend I'm an Angel because I went through some horrible things because ultimately I have done wrong in my life and been a pillock at times.

 

I'd rather be the person that encourages others to think outside the box and understand the why, than make a snap judgement because of the clothes someone wears or how they behave and ultimately I don't know whats gone on in their life either.

 

Edit : I'm not a Religious man, but think this quote is Apt with all the judgement calls being made -

 

"And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her" - John 8:7

Edited March 31, 2012 by LancsMike

[David Goss]

Sorry that was a bad choice of words on my part.

I understand what you are saying and I am in total agreement with you. I think the problem is statistics here. How many more people are there today than there was back in our youth? The more people there are the more bad people there are and also good people. Everything is going up in numbers and like you said its also how the media choose to show it. Everyone that's had any kind of sheltered upbringing won't have a clue what it's like to stay in a bad council estate or the hood or whatever you want to call it. These people know only what they read and hear from second hand gossip mongers. Matty your example I know happens and all too often the parents are also bad to the core. The thing is what to do about it? I know I have my ideas, extreme as they are I am sure it will never happen. There is good and bad people everywhere and there always will be, the problem is its getting easier for the bad ones to do what they want and we can't do anything because of their human rights even though most of them are barely human anyway.

[Dean Lofthouse]

I try not to stereo type Mike, I,m on about the guys that actually do commit these crimes and think nothing of it.

 

I can't believe the coincidence, but I have just been down to my yard which as a lot of you know is within a scout camp area at the side of their "out" road.

 

I noticed an Audi parked up at the end of my fence line, we have been having a lot of problems with dogging couples and drug taking so I drove down to look.

 

As I got near I saw there was all the packaging from a Kentucky meal thrown at either side of the car, so I pulled along side.

 

Inside was an Asian guy and an Asian woman, I won't go into detail at what they were doing. I papped the horn and pointed at the rubbish and told him to pick it up (bear in mind this is a kids area) he gestured for me to f off, so I papped my horn again and pointed at the rubbish and told him to pick it up.

 

He opened his door, got out pointed his hand at my face in a pistol gesture and thumbed the hammer action, then he bent down and picked up the rubbish.

 

So, apparently I,m a dead man but he,ll pick up the rubbish ?

 

I just shook my head, smiled and drove on.

 

Unreal

[LancsMike]

I understand where you're coming from Dave, proportionally it has grown with the population sure, but in my own humble view ? It's all too easy to just blame people or the individual rather than think the system is broken. My thinking on that is if you reduce the odds of those in the '' middle '' who can sway to being good or bad, you give them opportunities with jobs, education and prospects then the chances of those in the middle of turning out good increases proportionally - you get left with the nasty pieces of work and then you can look at ways to deal with that problem in particular.

 

Perfect example of that is case studies of Children and Teenagers in Afghanistan and Iraq where they have said quite openly they will pick up an AK47 or an RPG7 and fire it at Coalition troops because they get paid to by the Taliban or Al Qaeda or any Militia group that they do it for, the why ? lack of prospects, money and opportunities, give them that and the Militants can be dealt with or in our own parrallel with our Society, you can deal with the real scumbags on a case by case basis and you seperate them out from the rest.

 

My only worry with a thread like this and the thinking like this it leads to prejudice, same type of prejudice divides people and it empowers scumbags because the normal people in the middle, who get tarred with the same brush have little or no incentive to better themselves then.

[LancsMike]

That sounds pretty rough to say the least Dean and that guy in question sounds like a real charmer, it is sad that it happens but ultimately are you really worried ? You're an Ex Army bloke, have chainsaws and handsaws and other bits of kit. Chances are a numpty like him is just trying it on

 

It's just one of those sad things really, biproduct of any civilised society is undesirables and the not-so-civilised. I just wish the Government did something to empower decent people again.

[Dean Lofthouse]

He a follower mike...otherwise he wouldn't have picked up the rubbish

[LancsMike]

He a follower mike...otherwise he wouldn't have picked up the rubbish

 

I have to admit, part of me did wonder how he'd fair in Phase 1 / Basic Training with his attitude

[David Goss]

I understand where you're coming from Dave, proportionally it has grown with the population sure, but in my own humble view ? It's all too easy to just blame people or the individual rather than think the system is broken. My thinking on that is if you reduce the odds of those in the '' middle '' who can sway to being good or bad, you give them opportunities with jobs, education and prospects then the chances of those in the middle of turning out good increases proportionally - you get left with the nasty pieces of work and then you can look at ways to deal with that problem in particular.

 

Perfect example of that is case studies of Children and Teenagers in Afghanistan and Iraq where they have said quite openly they will pick up an AK47 or an RPG7 and fire it at Coalition troops because they get paid to by the Taliban or Al Qaeda or any Militia group that they do it for, the why ? lack of prospects, money and opportunities, give them that and the Militants can be dealt with or in our own parrallel with our Society, you can deal with the real scumbags on a case by case basis and you seperate them out from the rest.

 

My only worry with a thread like this and the thinking like this it leads to prejudice, same type of prejudice divides people and it empowers scumbags because the normal people in the middle, who get tarred with the same brush have little or no incentive to better themselves then.

 

Very much agree that the system is broken. Our scumbags get payed to be layabouts therefor giving them all the time they want to go bully the smaller guy.

I don't think you can compare it to Afghanistan kids in any way as theirs is a completely different culture and cultural differences matter a lot in how people behave. For example when I stayed in Rome I could walk around the bad areas without fear for my life because I knew there wasnt that group of of neds with the bottles of buckfast, pissed and waiting to jump on anyone that walked passed. Because in their culture drunk people are laughed at mostly and there is very few, whereas here there is the drinking culture where people lose their minds every weekend.

My incentive to get out and try to be a decent person was just not wanting to be tarred with the scumbag brush, and that should be more than enough incentive for anyone with a shred of decency. I cant claim to havin been an angel either but i sure as hell wasnt going to be a ned. These bad ones want to be bad because it their culture and all they see around them and it is made so easy for them to do it too. We need to take all their luxuries away from them and make them work for a living instead of giving them all the benefits they need to keep their scumbag culture alive.

 

Anyway I could go on for hours about this and that's not a good idea with the iPhone cos my eyes hurt now.

[LancsMike]

I see what you're saying Dave but with Italy there are some horrendous crimes that do go on by groups such as the Camorra, which dwarf the Mafia or Cosa Nostra but there is a different mindset definetely to our own, never did quite get the binge drinking culture either but I did get told I was '' well weird '' by my peers and tend to talk with older folk, such is life

 

What you said about decency too makes sense but some people don't know there is another, better way to better themselves so in a form of ignorance they can get swept up into the world of crime and immoral behaviour, again I'm not justifying what they do, I just try to understand the why so when I do come accross them in the street or even kids that are in the middle, I hope I leave a lasting thought or impression with them to think before they act and not just dive in with one of their mates who is a scumbag. I just try to do what I can, where I can you know ? but maybe that is a bit idealistic.

 

You sure it's the iPhone making your eyes hurt and not your age mate ? '' Ey when I were a lad... ''

 

Really good discussion though, pisstakes aside - quite enjoying it

[David Goss]

Aye it's the iPhone for sure I think, what were we talking about?

For sure italy has other problems but at least the mafia wouldn't smash their bottle of buckfast over your head just for trying to get to the shop past the gang. The Camorra (in Napoli) on the other hand may just shoot you if you happened to cross into their territory on your scooter with a helmet on... They like to know who's coming you see:sneaky2:

As long as you know their rules then your fine but our scumbags don't have rules and you can become a blood stain on the pavement for absolutely no reason at all except for just being there. I guess we will just have to live with it till the media comes up with some way to brainwash them into watching xfactor or big brother all day and night to keep them off the streets.....