Is this bats?

[Treecreeper1961]

excellent advise and post:thumbup1:

 

 

treeseer, stick to U.S applications!

 

I agree, good post and advice.

Unfortunately, there are always going to be situations where, despite the best intentions, bats will be encroached upon by unsuspecting tree workers. They can make use of many varied features after all.

The other issue, which has been discussed in relation to pruning standards but is equally true in tree work and bats, is that often the arb in the tree is better trained and educated and more conscious of the issues than the other individuals in implicated positions of responsibility(the bosses or clients) but the guy in the tree has been put in a difficult position because those who should know better don't. It should not be up to the tree worker to, having seen the tree for the first time, be the only person to give a damn whether there is a roost present.

Admittedly, the climber is best equipped to check features and they should as course of habit. However, how many climbers have been sent to do work on a tree that has obvious roost potential from the ground which has been ignored by others, or with the instruction of 'check for bats before cutting'?

Not good enough in my opinion.

[treeseer]

... It should not be up to the tree worker to, having seen the tree for the first time, be the only person to give a damn whether there is a roost present.

Admittedly, the climber is best equipped to check features and they should as course of habit. However, how many climbers have been sent to do work on a tree that has obvious roost potential from the ground which has been ignored by others, or with the instruction of 'check for bats before cutting'?

Not good enough in my opinion.

 

Agreed, but what choices does the climber have? No matter the political environment, it's a bat-tree-arborist issue. Would a judge convict an arborist who safely relocated habitat, versus chucking it through the chipper?

 

Those type of laws, on either side of the Atlantic, are meant to guide conservation, not prevent it.

[David Goss]

I agree, good post and advice.

Unfortunately, there are always going to be situations where, despite the best intentions, bats will be encroached upon by unsuspecting tree workers. They can make use of many varied features after all.

The other issue, which has been discussed in relation to pruning standards but is equally true in tree work and bats, is that often the arb in the tree is better trained and educated and more conscious of the issues than the other individuals in implicated positions of responsibility(the bosses or clients) but the guy in the tree has been put in a difficult position because those who should know better don't. It should not be up to the tree worker to, having seen the tree for the first time, be the only person to give a damn whether there is a roost present.

Admittedly, the climber is best equipped to check features and they should as course of habit. However, how many climbers have been sent to do work on a tree that has obvious roost potential from the ground which has been ignored by others, or with the instruction of 'check for bats before cutting'?

Not good enough in my opinion.

 

Hear hear! Well said.

Me being freelance, should it be my responsibility to check for bats on every tree i get asked to do? Should I ask if a survey has been carried out and I won't start until I see the proof? If this was the case I think people would quickly stop phoning me to be honest. I am pretty careful when climbing and try to check as much as possible but that's as much as I am willing to do for now.

[Doug Blease]

Sorry for the late reply on this, I dont often check the forum.

 

David, having worked as a freelance climber for a number of years it would be my opinion that it would be the main contractor/ manager/business owner's responsibility to consider the wildlife legislation prior to beginning works. I would say at the same time as completing the Risk Assessment.

 

You as the operator are simply employed to undertake the operations you are qualified to undertake. Having an interest in it and flagging it up is your duty but the final decision comes back to the main contractor/manager/foreman.

 

This is only my opinon.

[HCR]

As an addendum (I can't see it anywhere else in the thread), there was a defence of incidental result of a lawful activity but it turned out that the UK parliament had incorrectly implemented the EU directive and the law was changed - i.e. that defence no longer exists.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

How many climbers have taken the time to attend a bat awareness course?

 

How many arbs have a decent book on the subject of bats and their ecology?

 

The truth of the matter is whatever the stats it isnt enough, and one course isnt enough to get one bat ready, you need to read the books before and after attending. I might even suggest that the bat courses are of less value than actualy getting involved with a bat group for a coupe of evenings in the summer.

 

Experience is something you cant buy, only gain, it is down to the individual to do the right things and really take this issue seriously.

 

I wouldnt mind betting that the assumption above regarding the climbers better knowledge on such issues is accurate, so the question HAS to be asked "who does the quotes and inspections and are THEY qualified to do the survey?" the answer is in most cases a resounding NO.

 

The truth is we are unlikely to come across bats in the average tree other than lone males hiding in smaller features like loose bark plates or hazard beams (a particular favourite) However just about any veteran tree with decays and hollows with a sunny disposition to the cavity wall is likely to house a group of females with pups at some point either now, in the past or in the future. These maternity roosts must be given the highest priority, not just if attended but in perpetuity, for these are rare places, and too many are being lost.

 

I am certainly also not surprised by the bats in stump comment above, if there is one thing you can be certain of is that if there is no suitable places they will use less favourable ones.

 

I would say if your serious about taking care about bats, then there are certain things to be acutely aware of. These should help evaluate quickly when it is a serious potential as opposed to just a rare possibility.

 

First and foremost get onto the bat conservation trust and find out if there is a local group in your area, theres a lot of folk into bats, they are a strange breed that live by night, but are not a rare species, surprisingly bats are a popular wildlife hobby, Weirdly more so with women, its true!

 

if your near to ancient woodland be on High alert, as with field edges and especially those with old hedgrows on their boundaries, within a mile of a watercourse is also prime especially with Daubentons which feed over water, this is also Pip territory as they feed on mozzis/knats a lot. ive found Daubenton roosts upto a mile from water in a simple old dead beech in an old woodpecker roost, Five of the buggers!

 

Old towns, like those picture perfect market towns with the odd thatch roof, watch out, they will be EVERYWHERE! I kid you not.

 

thinking about it it is long overdue I put some bat books into bookclub and will make that a priority.

 

Just be alert, do all you can, thats all anyone can ask, take some time to understand them, the preferences they have their ecology etc and one thing I promise you is that youll find yourself admiring these little mammals, for they are a highly intelligent and very diverse group, the most diverse group of mammals in fact.

 

[HCR]

And don't forget, roosts are protected as well as the bats themselves. Even when they're empty.

[Doug Blease]

How many climbers have taken the time to attend a bat awareness course?

 

How many arbs have a decent book on the subject of bats and their ecology?

 

The truth of the matter is whatever the stats it isnt enough, and one course isnt enough to get one bat ready, you need to read the books before and after attending. I might even suggest that the bat courses are of less value than actualy getting involved with a bat group for a coupe of evenings in the summer.

 

Experience is something you cant buy, only gain, it is down to the individual to do the right things and really take this issue seriously.

 

I wouldnt mind betting that the assumption above regarding the climbers better knowledge on such issues is accurate, so the question HAS to be asked "who does the quotes and inspections and are THEY qualified to do the survey?" the answer is in most cases a resounding NO.

 

The truth is we are unlikely to come across bats in the average tree other than lone males hiding in smaller features like loose bark plates or hazard beams (a particular favourite) However just about any veteran tree with decays and hollows with a sunny disposition to the cavity wall is likely to house a group of females with pups at some point either now, in the past or in the future. These maternity roosts must be given the highest priority, not just if attended but in perpetuity, for these are rare places, and too many are being lost.

 

I am certainly also not surprised by the bats in stump comment above, if there is one thing you can be certain of is that if there is no suitable places they will use less favourable ones.

 

I would say if your serious about taking care about bats, then there are certain things to be acutely aware of. These should help evaluate quickly when it is a serious potential as opposed to just a rare possibility.

 

First and foremost get onto the bat conservation trust and find out if there is a local group in your area, theres a lot of folk into bats, they are a strange breed that live by night, but are not a rare species, surprisingly bats are a popular wildlife hobby, Weirdly more so with women, its true!

 

if your near to ancient woodland be on High alert, as with field edges and especially those with old hedgrows on their boundaries, within a mile of a watercourse is also prime especially with Daubentons which feed over water, this is also Pip territory as they feed on mozzis/knats a lot. ive found Daubenton roosts upto a mile from water in a simple old dead beech in an old woodpecker roost, Five of the buggers!

 

Old towns, like those picture perfect market towns with the odd thatch roof, watch out, they will be EVERYWHERE! I kid you not.

 

thinking about it it is long overdue I put some bat books into bookclub and will make that a priority.

 

Just be alert, do all you can, thats all anyone can ask, take some time to understand them, the preferences they have their ecology etc and one thing I promise you is that youll find yourself admiring these little mammals, for they are a highly intelligent and very diverse group, the most diverse group of mammals in fact.

 

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Hama,

 

Good points.

I would raise the idea that protected species/habitat legislation (i.e.bats/owls etc) which may cover trees should be mentioned in LANTRA's chainsaw courses? Not in depth, but an awareness at least.

 

I dont think all arb contractors must own books on the ecological science behind such species. You are right, one course does not make an expert, but it would raise awareness, which is all that is required in the case of contracting arborists. For ecological assessment, a qualified and professionally accredited ecologist should always be consulted.

 

In my opinion, our professional associations should have a much stronger link to the likes of the BCT and other wildlife trusts.

 

Your habitat awareness is spot on but not far reaching enough. Bat roosts come in all different forms (i.e. summer/hibernacula/maternal/trasitional/swarming site etc) can be found at much greater distances from optimal foraging habitats due to the use of stepping stones in the wider landscape (often trees).

 

Out of interest, has your interest in bats grown with your interests in tree physiology?

 

Doug

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hama,

 

 

Out of interest, has your interest in bats grown with your interests in tree physiology?

 

Doug

 

Yes you could say that:001_smile: