Toxic Plants

[Big Joe]

Hello Forum

 

My colleagues and I have been working with our schools to promote ecological learning. Many schools, particularly Primaries, now have Forest Schools, often featuring newly planted small woodlands and hedges with an emphasis on native species, thus including Privet, Spindle, Rowan, Holly and Wayfaring Tree.

 

Our colleague in the H&S team advising schools is recommending that Holly is removed from all primaries, as the only text he can refer to is MAFF's 'Poisonous Plants & Fungi' (HMSO 1988), in which pretty much everything is 'poisonous' and 'potentially lethal'.

 

We feel very strongly that to systematically remove all Holly (and potentially everything else described in his book as poisonous!) is very poor risk management, being grossly disproportionate to the risk.

 

Rather like poor old Saddam, we are finding it difficult to prove a negative: there is no solid data on toxicity and incidences of poisoning by plants, we suspect because it quite simply never occurs.

 

Our case is that, whilst a goat might chew enough Holly berries to receive a toxic dose of glycosides, no child is ever likely to because it is not palateable. Berry in, chew, immediately spit out?

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for sources of information on this subject?

 

To date, I have researched HSE stats, the Institute of Biomedical Science, the Royal College of Pathology and Royal College of General Practitioners. None of these have any information, opinion or advice to offer, other than HSE advice to try the HPA. I have bought Gillan's 'Poisonous Plants' and we have Kew's CD-ROM 'Poisonous Plants & Fungi' on order.

 

I have found an HPA/NPIS leaflet on "Low Toxicity Substances" which includes Holly. The NPIS is proving elusive, but I do now have a phone number for their equivalent in Wales, via the Public Health Board.

 

Our H&S colleague is not an unreasonable man, and has a difficult job to do. We agree that Laburnum and Cherry Laurel are not appropriate planting in Primary School settings. We need to support him in unearthing better guidance than he is currently using, so that children can safely learn about native plants and risk assessment.

 

Any help will be very much appreciated!

 

Best wishes

[blazer]

Not to sound a bit over, to make it totally safe for kids stay in a fenced inclosure - being outside = some risk, for me it's plants like Giant Hogweed, and maybe with younger children check out the fungi and risks that could put them off being in a wood but after that it's training. Starting off with 'how to walk through a wood' (without falling over). Sticks in eyes must be the bigger risk.

 

Holly is part of the woodland ecosystem - so are biting insects.

 

I'm a bit old but I played in woods as a kid, learnt about plants from older kids with no probs and took my son onto a large estate since he was 5 to build camps with a small axe now he's got his CS39 and doing his level 4, so he has come up all the way.

 

But I can see the problem, when about 8 yrs old we took one of my sons friends to the woods, he ran about like an animal released and when we went home he asked about 'paying the man'? he had only ever been to 'pay to get in' controlled places, so had no natrual developed skills - I guess most are like that

Edited March 23, 2012 by blazer

[Big Joe]

Cheers, Blazer! I, too, survived a childhood mucking about in the outdoors. I ate (amongst other things) bluebells, cow parsley, and loved the bitter taste of beech leaves. I did not enjoy the asparagus root I once tried. But it didn't kill me. Neither did the raw milk, straight from the cow.

 

For those with any remaining interest in the topic, there's some good stuff (for once - amongst the usual off-thread rubbish) on UKTC, and some truly outstanding stuff on the QTRA Users (ie not public) Discussion List. I've had responses from both Helliwell and Lonsdale - a bright note on which to finish an otherwise dreary week!

 

Peace: out!

[David Goss]

I say shoot the H&S guy! This is typical of this country trying to wrap us all in cotton wool and therefor hindering our learning experience called "life" I would hate to be a kid these days, it must be so boring not being allowed to have fun cos it's dangerous!

Anyway that's my short rant over, I hope you can find a solution to the problem and maybe give the world a bit of breathing space with 1 less H&S dictator.

[Big Joe]

Hey, Man! Don't shoot the H&S guy: he's someone's son, too. Educate him!

[pgkevet]

If memory serves the Leeds Royal Infirmary has the National Poisons Information service... they provide info for medics (and vets) on poisonings and how to treat them and request feedback on each case...so a good chance that they would have some data on human cases per year. Whether they'll part with that info for a non registered user I can't say but this cause is worthwhile and they might.

[Jesse]

I say shoot the H&S guy! This is typical of this country trying to wrap us all in cotton wool and therefor hindering our learning experience called "life" I would hate to be a kid these days, it must be so boring not being allowed to have fun cos it's dangerous!

Anyway that's my short rant over, I hope you can find a solution to the problem and maybe give the world a bit of breathing space with 1 less H&S dictator.

 

Yep shoot them with an AK47, I'v just done a job with a 4hr H&S Induction, it then only took 4hrs to drop the tree, i'v **** it as a result my mental health is now at risk, i'v gone into deep depression and i'v never had depression in all my 49 years of living and let me say in those 49 years i'v been through some ****, my point is this should i now sue those H&S AH who gave me that induction ? one Q they asked- Do you have any medical probs? what should i have said? the list is LONG, so all i said is i do have a bad back from time to time, that was it, for a minute time stood still, he then told me that as i was employed by myself that HE HAD TO TELL ME that i had a bad back:lol: Its ALL PANTS IN THE UK, PANTS PANTS PANTS. I don't think he liked me