Kretzschmaria deusta on Acer

[Fungus]

Today, while visiting the very old inner city of Groenlo (Grolsch beer) with some local tree "lovers", I first noticed signs of an Armillaria infection on the other side of this privately owned "red" Acer standing beside a busy road and then found prolific fruitings of K. deusta starting from ground level and forming teleomorphs breaking through the bark up to 5 metres on the opposite side of the trunk.

Tomorrow, the owners will be warned and advised to have the tree felled as soon as possible.

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[Mr Fir]

Looks like a pretty serious case of K. deusta, an Acer wouldn't have a chance i guess...Do you think the tree would have been ok if it had only been Armillaria?

[Fungus]

1. an Acer wouldn't have a chance I guess.

2. Do you think the tree would have been ok if it had only been Armillaria?

 

1. Acer is not capable of compartmentalisation of the from the central wood column through the radial rays outward development of the soft rotting mycelium of K. deusta.

2. No, the difference is, that it would have died without becoming unstable at the same time.

[treeseer]

I once saw an A rubrum with K.d. 360 fall under the weight of a 190# climber (who recovered), so this can be serious. The circumferential spread seems like the key factor in stability, more than upward spread. It seems worth the time to assess the risk with probing and measurement and looking at tree and targets before advising.

 

If it was A.m., there would be a better chance of codit, yes?

[Fungus]

1. The circumferential spread seems like the key factor in stability, more than upward spread. It seems worth the time to assess the risk with probing and measurement and looking at tree and targets before advising.

2. If it was A.m., there would be a better chance of codit, yes?

 

1. I'm experienced enough in both MTA and VTA of tree species such as Acer, Tilia and Aesculus infected with K. deusta (and a parasitic Armillaria on top of it) to refrain from suggesting the private owner of the tree to spend time and money on further assessment of the stability and the chances of survival of a tree next to a busy road with a constant stream of cars and bicycles with human targets in or on it.

2. Even if it was just Armillaria mellea, no, because it is a necrotrophic parasitic cambium killer mostly starting decomposing wood to produce FB's after the tree has died. Or do you refer to Acer macrophyllum, a species, I've never encountered in The Netherlands.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Fungus

[treeseer]

1. I'm experienced enough in both MTA and VTA of tree species such as Acer, Tilia and Aesculus infected with K. deusta (and a parasitic Armillaria on top of it) to refrain from suggesting the private owner of the tree to spend time and money on further assessment ...

 

Armillaria too? that was not in the first post, and i did not recognize it in the pictures... what did I miss?

 

Also, how far around was the K.d. visible?

 

Good of you to alert them of the evident disease(s?), whatever they choose to do, of the many options before them. Their time and money would be spent on removal, or assessment, or loss of tree, or treatments, or not.

[Fungus]

1. Armillaria too? that was not in the first post, and i did not recognize it in the pictures... what did I miss?

2. how far around was the K.d. visible?

3. Good of you to alert them

 

1. It was not in the first post ? "..., I first noticed signs of an Armillaria infection on the other side of this privately owned "red" Acer ... and then found ... K. deusta ... on the opposite side ..."

2. Three quarters of the trunk's base and up to 5 metres, while the other quarter was showings signs (cracks, bark shedding, melanine plaques) of an Armillaria infection of the cambium.

3. I didn't, I phoned the tree officer of the city of Groenlo and he informed them.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Fungus

[treeseer]

1. It was not in the first post ? "..., I first noticed signs of an Armillaria infection on the other side of this privately owned "red" Acer ... and then found ... K. deusta ... on the opposite side ..."

 

Ah, there it was!

 

2. Three quarters of the trunk's base and up to 5 metres, while the other quarter was showings signs (cracks, bark shedding, melanine plaques) of an Armillaria infection of the cambium.

 

Well 3/4, that's no good...but I would be interested to know how one can tell these melanine plaques from other black smooth growths. Since cracks and bark shedding are ubiquitous conditions, it seems essential to have a definite sign before diagnosis. Otherwise some of us non-mycologists might get carried away, and start seeing things where they are not.

 

And even when it is seen, A.m. can be more easily compartmentalized than K.d., in most hosts, according to experience and references across the Atlantic from you all European folks.

 

3. I didn't, I phoned the tree officer of the city of Groenlo and he informed them.

 

After making his own inspection, no doubt. At any rate, it's good they were informed. Trees are good. Trees need care. Arborists care for trees.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

 

Well 3/4, that's no good...but I would be interested to know how one can tell these melanine plaques from other black smooth growths. Since cracks and bark shedding are ubiquitous conditions, it seems essential to have a definite sign before diagnosis. Otherwise some of us non-mycologists might get carried away, and start seeing things where they are not.

 

And even when it is seen, A.m. can be more easily compartmentalized than K.d., in most hosts, according to experience and references across the Atlantic from you all European folks.

 

 

I think you can take it as a given that some of us can tell the differences between external signs for given colonisations.

 

as for other arbs getting carried away and seeing things they are not, that would hardly be something anyone but the individual would be held liable for!

Giving knowledge and information is a good thing, but something that will never come across or be easy to substitute is the experience, the 1000's hours, years from study in the field.

 

as for compartmentalisation of Kretz there is good guidance around on what constitutes a manageable situation, and kretz on maples is never going to be high on that list of "doables"

[Fungus]

1. how one can tell these melanine plaques from other black smooth growths. Since cracks and bark shedding are ubiquitous conditions, it seems essential to have a definite sign before diagnosis.

2. And even when it is seen, A.m. can be more easily compartmentalized than K.d., in most hosts, according to experience and references across the Atlantic from you all European folks.

3. After making his own inspection, no doubt.

 

1. I told you before, if you're not experienced enough to know the difference between "crispy crusts" of K. deusta and "black foam rubber" or real look-a-likes of K. deusta, or between melanine plaques covering hyphae and other black smooth grows or black oosing pathogens, use a microscope to identify fungal microscopical structures such as hyphae and/or spores.

2. In Acer ? Not IME.

3. No need, he trusts my expertise opinion and advice.