Managing Trees with Decay & Dysfunction

[treeseer]

I've read some of Ferrini's work with those trees; they sound remarkable.

 

If you want to catch Fay 3 days prior, head for Hong Kong. IASHK: International Arboriculture Summit - Hong Kong

[David Humphries]

If you want to catch Fay 3 days prior, head for Hong Kong. IASHK: International Arboriculture Summit - Hong Kong

 

 

 

Have a good one Guy

 

Say hello To Mr Fay for me.

 

 

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[treeseer]

Back to the topic, here's an ugly old conk in early october that sits where a young inonotus dryadeus conk was ID'd in August; basically a creamy colored glob with brownish/amber droplets from guttation(?).

 

A probe went 24" in where the diameter was measured-unconfirmed- at 55". A reduction in height and load and lean was specified;~15% with cuts <10cm.

 

Other reports said decay could not be stopped, and it will fall someday, and we dunno where or when, ergo felling recommended.

Edited October 20, 2012 by treeseer

[David Humphries]

Back to the topic, here's an ugly old conk in early october that sits where a young inonotus dryadeus conk was ID'd in August; basically a creamy colored glob with brownish/amber droplets from guttation(?)..

 

Sorry Guy, are you enquiring for thoughts on the identity of the bracket in the 1st shot, if so I would of thought this was a detached and desicated I. dryadeus.

 

Appologies if not, but the '?' has thrown me a bit

 

Or are you questioning the term "guttation" ?

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[sean freeman]

Nice pics and pretty thoughtful notes, thanks for posting Guy..plenty of food for thought for those who are (hopefully) beginning to recognise balanced proportionate tree management...IMO some very good pointers to the reconsideration of 'decline' in a particular tree.

[treeseer]

David yes I had to consult the dictionary on that one; not in my vernacular. and thanks for the confirmation on that ugly thing's ID.

 

Nice pics and pretty thoughtful notes, thanks for posting Guy..plenty of food for thought for those who are (hopefully) beginning to recognise balanced proportionate tree management...IMO some very good pointers to the reconsideration of 'decline' in a particular tree.

Thanks Sean; balanced and proportionate is hard to come by, even with the wording in the BMP about looking for adaptive growth. The way assessment is often taught, it turns into a witch hunt for defects. This case will heat up if the agency agrees to my clients' proposal for a 3-way arborist meeting to resolve differences.

 

the pix suck for resolution but i am reduced to emailing from my iphone at <200 kb size so they pop into the report without resizing or overloading the doc. technodinosaur here. anyway glad they help tell the story.

 

I concluded with "After reviewing the two other reports, I believe that the differences are fundamentally due to the scope of the assignments, and the protocols, thresholds and methods followed during the assessments." and took out {the phrase "This is rather discomforting and unprofessional} of Schwarze's that might have roiled defensiveness. You of all people should underrstand the effort that restraint took! dam hard work that, when gratification is o so appealing...as for "pretty thoughful" (haha i know what you meean), the notes get fleshed out in the report, which must be held back for now.

 

re the decline issue, I hope the Decline mis-term is in place, after the June dendro piece. It was nice to contact and refer to Ted Green's work on that one.

 

“In the past there has been an increasing tendency to simplify complex concepts in tree risk assessment. The danger is that with any simplification, a certain degree of inaccuracy has to be taken into account. A simplification can be used to explain how the white rot fungus Inonotus can breach reaction zones in a London plane, but on the basis of this simplification a reader may classify this fungus as extremely hazardous on that post, although under normal circumstances the London plane can fully come part meant allies TK. Thus, a person who apply simplification's but does not understand the facts behind it, will probably err on the side of caution. Infected trees will be condemned although they could be retained... There appears to be a trend in tree risk assessment to substitute information on wood anatomy and host fungus associations with quick and simple measurements using invasive diagnostic techniques.

 

{This is rather discomforting and unprofessional, as} arborist should take pride in the fact that both trees and wood decay fungi are two complex organisms, and the decision whether to retain or condemn a tree has far-reaching consequences for the urban environment. Trees have evolved over millions of years to become incredibly efficient and powerful at withdrawing carbon from the atmosphere, which is precisely the role that we need right now in cities or carbon is produced abundantly. It is a tragedy that we are not taking advantage of what could be potentially our most powerful partner in the fight against climate change. We need to be planting trees and maintaining them by the billion.

 

Trees are effective carbon sinks while they remain alive and the wood is sound. After all, any carbon that is held in the world of the tree is carbon that is not contributing to the problem of global warming. Trees can hold onto carbon for thousands of years. Ultimately, we are all dependent on trees had other plans to mediate the suns energy, to cool our planet, and to maintain healthy ecosystems. Any arborist who undertakes tree risk assessment should have a profound knowledge of not only the procedures and diagnostic techniques, but first and foremost of host-fungus associations.” (Schwarze 2008)"

Edited October 21, 2012 by treeseer

[sean freeman]

a witch hunt for defects

 

This a good descriptor of what too many of us have seen/read and (yes if we're honest) even engaged in ourselves in the past.

 

It is so hard to avoid hostilities with other consultants when inevitable constructive criticism results from having to reference previous reporting on a tree you have been asked to assess...I think you did a good job in that regard - sadly I have been less successful in that regard.

 

I believe that the differences are fundamentally due to the scope of the assignments, and the protocols, thresholds and methods followed during the assessments

 

Very, very true one of the most frustrating things is to find a report which does not clearly define the scope and limitations nor the methodology...making it almost impossible to determine why the previous author reached the conclusions they did.

 

I hope the Decline mis-term is in place, after the June dendro piece. It was nice to contact and refer to Ted Green's work on that one

 

I hope so too, but of course many tree owners/managers will have a sense of what they hope/want their tree to provide in the way of aesthetic value and this can often be to the detriment of the tree itself - over fertilizing comes to mind.

 

Equally frustrating is the fact that here in Oz (well the sub-tropics anyway) there is so very little reliable information regarding that relationship between decay fungi and host tree:thumbdown:...some of us are trying to make headway in redressing this but without solid research it is mostly anecdotal (not without merit) and very diffuse (in many ways!!!). However we have to make a start and try to move our industry away from that witch hunt.

[treeseer]

"...Very, very true one of the most frustrating things is to find a report which does not clearly define the scope and limitations nor the methodology...making it almost impossible to determine why the previous author reached the conclusions they did."

 

Most maddening is a lack of knowledge about thresholds, for opinions that are volunteered, not specifically assigned.

 

"... many tree owners/managers will have a sense of what they hope/want their tree to provide in the way of aesthetic value and this can often be to the detriment of the tree itself - over fertilizing comes to mind."

 

the 2 big companies here are still centered on tree care that comes out of a bag

 

"However we have to make a start and try to move our industry away from that witch hunt."

 

i just reread the attached attempt to do just this, from 7 years ago. Can you tell me where the (amateur) author fell short in conveying a balanced approach? Too timid? too loud? lack of graphic support? deaf audience that does not want to work hard or get hands dirty? lack of clarity?

 

In the BMP, "basic tree risk assessment" adds inspection of strengths as an afterthought almost, and resists telling inspectors that they should even ID the fungi, never mind sussing it out. Lots of resistance from corporate interests on this.

 

your most incisive comments -destructive and reconstructive--are welcome--this needs to be laid bare and regrown stronger.

[treeseer]

hagwumps

ISA CEU Basic Tree Risk Assessment complete.pdf

[James]

I like the article, it is clear, concise and contains good advice for the target audience, but what does 'hagwumps' mean?