woodland condition survey

[Bundle 2]

You work too hard mate...!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

You work too hard mate...!

 

I know!

 

havent got much choice, and even if i did i would still probably work as hard, tis my nature, though now i am wise, and want to be rewarded for effort!

[Doug Blease]

Hama,

 

I am conscious that me and you have not always agreed on best pratice etc and I think this is due to our different backgrounds in the industry.

 

However I have noticed that you often critisise the Degree holding consultants which you have been faced with over the years. Claiming that you could do a better job but your lack of a qualification is holding you back.

 

I find it a little bit hypocritical that you then proceed to ask on an internet forum for report templates so that you can complete a Woodland survey for a customer.

 

I know this sounds a little harsh, but in fairness you have been blunt to others in the past also. If you are unable to write a report, you should'nt be offering this service to your customer and you shouldnt claim to be able to carry out robust consultancy work.

 

You say that it "aint like you cant assess trees". Sorry mate, but writing the report is all part of the assessment process.

[Tree Man Tom]

Hama,

 

I am conscious that me and you have not always agreed on best pratice etc and I think this is due to our different backgrounds in the industry.

 

However I have noticed that you often critisise the Degree holding consultants which you have been faced with over the years. Claiming that you could do a better job but your lack of a qualification is holding you back.

 

I find it a little bit hypocritical that you then proceed to ask on an internet forum for report templates so that you can complete a Woodland survey for a customer.

 

I know this sounds a little harsh, but in fairness you have been blunt to others in the past also. If you are unable to write a report, you should'nt be offering this service to your customer and you shouldnt claim to be able to carry out robust consultancy work.

 

You say that it "aint like you cant assess trees". Sorry mate, but writing the report is all part of the assessment process.

 

Gotta say im with you on that one.

[arb culture]

Hama,

 

I am conscious that me and you have not always agreed on best pratice etc and I think this is due to our different backgrounds in the industry.

 

However I have noticed that you often critisise the Degree holding consultants which you have been faced with over the years. Claiming that you could do a better job but your lack of a qualification is holding you back.

 

I find it a little bit hypocritical that you then proceed to ask on an internet forum for report templates so that you can complete a Woodland survey for a customer.

 

I know this sounds a little harsh, but in fairness you have been blunt to others in the past also. If you are unable to write a report, you should'nt be offering this service to your customer and you shouldnt claim to be able to carry out robust consultancy work.

 

You say that it "aint like you cant assess trees". Sorry mate, but writing the report is all part of the assessment process.

 

I'm kind of in agreement with you Doug, but not totally.

 

All Hama was asking for was a template. There's nothing wrong with that, if someone's got a template their willing to share then Hama gets lucky and saves himself a lot of work creating his own -why re-invent the wheel if you don't have to. After all, lots of consulting arbs use others templates (THREATS, BS5837:2005, QTRA, AMUIG, etc)

 

Although, having said that, all my templates are copyright, and I certainly wouldn't share them without a fee - they took a lot of work/research in the creating.

 

[Doug Blease]

I agree with what your saying there.

 

I know where to get report templates, and in the long run I personalise templates to suit the type of report I am writing. But then I have gone and slogged through an education programme which has taught me how to do that.

 

All I am highlighting is that if he is offering a consultancy type of service without the knowledge of where to accrue templates or even what should be scoped into a report. Then he should be advising his customer to contact a suitably informed, qualified professional, consultant.

 

I welcome his response and I am awaiting our usual differing views with the respect of a healthy debate.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

What whould you like me to say to all the above?

 

That your right and that i should stick to being a climber?

 

i will NEVER gripe about my situation from here in, your all right, ive been whinging and that aint me.

 

As for my entitlement to survey and asses via the VTA method, dont patronise me to my face that way!

 

by the time Ive finished this survey and written the report I will have gained the experience and skills to do this work, as for assesing trees, do you think your better than I?

 

Even my peers will tell you my VTA practitoners cert is worth more than PTI, so get lost, i have the rights, and i am coming, ready or not!

 

So I asume that you all think that only degree qualified arbs should be doing this stuff?

[arb culture]

as for assesing trees, do you think your better than I?

 

So I asume that you all think that only degree qualified arbs should be doing this stuff?

 

Hama, I don't know you or your work, so how could I possibly think I was better than you?

 

Although I'm qualified to masters level I certainly don't think that only degree qualified arbs should be doing surveys. I have guys helping me out with no formal academic qualifications, but who through years of experience and applied intelligence are bloody good at making sensible recomendations regarding tree condition.

 

How did you get with your survey by the way, I hope it all went smoothly?

 

[Doug Blease]

What whould you like me to say to all the above?

 

That your right and that i should stick to being a climber?

 

i will NEVER gripe about my situation from here in, your all right, ive been whinging and that aint me.

 

As for my entitlement to survey and asses via the VTA method, dont patronise me to my face that way!

 

by the time Ive finished this survey and written the report I will have gained the experience and skills to do this work, as for assesing trees, do you think your better than I?

 

Even my peers will tell you my VTA practitoners cert is worth more than PTI, so get lost, i have the rights, and i am coming, ready or not!

 

So I asume that you all think that only degree qualified arbs should be doing this stuff?

 

 

I think this response about sums it up really. I dont think ANYONE should stick to just climbing, I have never said it and I have offered endless encouragement to those who wish to diversify their skills and develop their professional portfolio.

For example, I spent weeks researching stuff for a guy on here wanting to get into Bat work and sent it to him with no remorse. The reason being he was proactively bettering himself through committing to an education as well as working.

 

I view this public forum as a place for healthy debate and to raise the important issues which face this image of our industry.

 

I never said you were unable to assess a tree using any method you wish. I simply highlighted that for all your knowledge, you admit to being unable to complile this report. If I was in this situation, I would go and learn how to do it. Not ask for free templates from those who have gone through such a process, often at some expense.

 

Do I think I am better than you? Why do you ask that? I said at the very beginning that we have a habit of not agreeing and I think this is due to our differing backgrounds. This to me means that we both have qualities to offer the industry. I am simply disagreeing with your approach.

 

I never said that all consultancy should be only carried out by degree holders. I did say that you have in the past criticised this level of education in terms of the ability to carry out effective, robust consultancy.

 

To be factual, I said that I feel report writing is an important part of the assessment process and that you should be comfortable with this before providing the service.

 

To me, you have highlighted is that report writing isnt actually that easy. I was hoping this would have changed your views on those who have written reports that you have been critical of in the past.

 

Believe it or not, I do actually have an enormous amount of respect for your Biological/Ecological knowledge and in particular your skills with fungi. I am sorry if you feel patronised, this was never my intention, this hopefully is apparent from my apologies for sounding harsh in the first response.

 

I think if you had offered to purchase a template from someone, you would have had different response.

 

Sorry again for putting a downer on the subject.

 

DB

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

To all above, let me state clearly, i take NOTHING from anyone without at some stage returning the gesture.

 

ANYONE who has met me from this site or had anything to do with me will tell you I will do absolutely anything for anyone, for me to ask for help in here is like asking friends as far as i am concerned and those that want payment, well i would happily pay.

 

see it my way, from my perspective, I am asking for something, what others ask for in return is open to negotiation, i want to learn, and learn hard and fast, i have to.

 

Ive taken reports apart yes, but my reason for doing so was justified in EVERY single case, from unrecorded root plate lifts, to raywood ashes that where dropping limbs every week but where down to remove broken branches only!

 

I condemned a big beech a few years back, wanted to at the least pollard it, the degreed up TO said NO WAY, two weeks later it nigh on killed a man and turned his collarado into a metal pancake, he had only just got out of it, put the kettle on and stood by the sink watched his car vanish under a tree!

 

last year i did a whole load of deadwooding of ash trees around elstree, whoever did the survey had no flipping idea WHY so much dead was evident in these trees, a whole roads worth of Hispidus infected ash over a highway!

 

Just illustrating my long long long term problem with those that are supposed to be telling me!

 

I want thier pay grade, and I am worthy, expect me to get the Hump when suggesting I might not be entitled!

 

For years ive held myself back because poeple above me, more qualified than me said i wasnt allowed to do this stuff, that I wasnt up to the job, i allowed them to slowly erode my self confidence, and now I am finaly taking absolutley NO notice of them whatsover, and it feels great, and work is coming my way cos those that know me, trust me, I dont miss a thing.

 

There is someone on here I am going to help with so much time, a project to increase the fungal ecology of the site despite being a very young wood with no deadwood, that will consume me and my time, but i wont ask for a thing. isnt that what being part of this proffesional community is about?

 

We should be willing to help eachother in any way we can, without question or judgment, do unto others as you wish to be done unto you.

 

karma is a beautifull thing when you embrace the posative and reflect good will to all.

 

I thank you for the apology, it is duly noted:001_smile:

 

as for seeing eye to eye, i havent a problem with any of you, only with being told i am not entitled to a better life from my previous and long served HARD labour.