Thermal imaging its here to stay

[arb culture]

I posted a response to this the other day and it seems to have mysteriously vanished.

 

I'll try again.

 

Thanks Marcus for the detailed response. I'll give it the attention it deserves before posting a reply.

 

In the meantime, is what Yorkshireman says correct? Will you take responsibility/liability for any recommendation made using your system?

[Marcus B-T]

First off my response will be brief as i am in bed with pnumonia. Is a decision covered by me? well no because they are down to the individual. Is the outcome of the model covered? yes but only if you are a registered licencee.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Visual Tree Assessment has two significant limitations. Firstly it is based on observations of the trees historic reactive growth process, because the arborists uses knowledge of how the tree grows and responds to structural weaknesses over time. Some VTA symptoms will take decades to develop as the tree slowly reacts to a particular structural situation or the presence of decay. Therefore VTA is an assessment of a historic process, and does not necessarily tell you anything about what the trees current condition is.

 

For example a VTA symptom such as an area of wound wood or reactive growth that has formed a bulge may now be dead wood, dried out or even decayed. The arborists is not likely to be able to say one way or the other, and this is really the second issue with VTA it is down to the inspectors personal opinion and experience. The inspecting arborist has to place a significance on the observations made, and then determine a conclusion without any supporting evidence.

 

The use of thermal imaging provide the inspector with an ability to determine what parts of the tree are still functional. Using heat as the tool it is possible to use the infrared camera to observe the water presence and movement within the tree. This provides the supporting evidence to demonstrate that the reactive growth associated with VTA symptoms is still functional. This is done simply by using the camera as a tool to observe heat movement within the tree.

 

The whole point about VTA is that it is "what is reasonable" to say it is flawed is a great disrespect to its value in VISUAL assesment, and "reasonable costs"

 

using expensive diagnostic tools is not always appropriate or cost efficient.

 

The VTA system is cost effective, relatively easy to learn the basics and can be taught to any level of user.

 

It is unreasonable to expect tree managment to revolve around this method, I am a BIG advocate of the VTA method and wont accept it being invalidated.

[arb culture]

First off my response will be brief as i am in bed with pnumonia. Is a decision covered by me? well no because they are down to the individual. Is the outcome of the model covered? yes but only if you are a registered licencee.

 

Marcus, Thanks for the reply.

 

Get well soon!

 

[Marcus B-T]

Vta is limited rather than flawed since everything has its limit. Mike Ellison best described the limitations. If you have a number of trees with a given defect identified by vta and you have am idea of the rate of failure with this defect you have am estimate of the significance of the defect. The problem is which ones will actually fail and when. If the defect is severe it can brocca be determined visually. If you have a hundred trees and there is a chance that only one will fail then you need to have a better idea of which one will fail otherwise you could advocate work for up to 99 trees that dont require work and the vta is on longer cost effective. It is unlikely that the reality will be this extreme but even Clause M advocates vta as the first part a process not the whole process. I always look upon vta as a filter to discount the obviouse healthy and dangerous trees this leaves a smaller number that require further investigation

[BatiArb]

The whole point about VTA is that it is "what is reasonable" to say it is flawed is a great disrespect to its value in VISUAL assesment, and "reasonable costs"

 

.........

 

It is unreasonable to expect tree managment to revolve around this method, I am a BIG advocate of the VTA method and wont accept it being invalidated.

 

Tony,

 

Please you sound like you are taking offence on behalf of Claus, who I do not believe would be offended by my comments. The point I am trying to make is that the method has limitations. It is reading HISTORIC symptoms which have taken TIME to develop.

 

The method is (like any other) only as good as the knowledge of the Arborist using it, and the quality of the training they have received.

 

I am not in any way saying that the method is flawed and certainly have not wish to de-value it.

 

I do believe however, that Thermal Imaging does offer us a great way of validating VTA and taking the inspection of an important tree onto the next level. It is a natural and important progression.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Tony,

 

Please you sound like you are taking offence on behalf of Claus, who I do not believe would be offended by my comments. The point I am trying to make is that the method has limitations. It is reading HISTORIC symptoms which have taken TIME to develop.

 

The method is (like any other) only as good as the knowledge of the Arborist using it, and the quality of the training they have received.

 

I am not in any way saying that the method is flawed and certainly have not wish to de-value it.

 

I do believe however, that Thermal Imaging does offer us a great way of validating VTA and taking the inspection of an important tree onto the next level. It is a natural and important progression.

 

Sorry andy, Ive just been doing too much reading into arguments over claus work and its getting to me! i guess in a way I am as you say taking offence on his behalf! lol:laugh1: I just have a great deal of respect for the man and find him to be a decent honest hard working man, i like him, find him hilarious and ive spent a small fortune reading and learning from him so i guess i get a bit snotty when someones trying to suggest my hard won cash may have been better spent elswhere, cos Im pretty carefull with my cash, I dont have a busting lot! and i also think that thermo is the way to take this VTA into the future, I am just struggling with coming to terms with the costs of various methods versus a well trained eye and VTA system.

 

I need some hands on experience of thermo, but at the moment its out of my reach, its on the CPD list, but PTI is ahead in priority, thats my next expense, maybe then when thats under my belt, youll be getting a call from me to book something up.

 

I hate the situation but its all about "level" this and "level" that and PTI gets me a level 2 qual, and im sick of not having a recognised "level" to my credit!

[BatiArb]

Thermal Imaging Training Brisbane 18th to 22nd October

and

Melbourne 25th to 29th October

 

 

This posting is to follow up on my recent article in Australian ArborAge (see attached) and to let you know that Marcus Bellett-Travers will be in Australia this October to offer training in the application of thermal tree assessment and the use of his Tree Thermal Matrix System (TTMS) software processing.

 

Workshop places will be available for up to six people at each venue. Training will be provided in the use of thermal imaging in the assessment of tree health and vitality, followed by the use of TTMS software to determine their reactive functionality. The latter can be of particular value when it comes to considering pruning work or the tree’s ability to respond to the presence of decay. Marcus will also be covering the use of thermal imaging for the identification and monitoring of tree pests, specifically wood boring insects.

 

The workshop charges are dependant on numbers, but will be no more than AU$4,000 and the aim is to discount up to 25% as places are booked, that is, if all six places are booked then the total cost is AU$3000 per person. For example there are currently 3 provisional bookings for one of the workshops so that the current cost is AU$ 3,500 per person.

 

The cost includes full training as detailed below in addition to a three month TTMS software license with full support and updates. If you want to continue with product support beyond the initial three month period the annual subscription will be AU$1500 covering support and regular updates. However, there is no obligation to subscribe to an annual license because trained users can still utilise the software without support at no extra cost.

 

Special hire rates have been negotiated with FLIR Australia who offer a variety of cameras capable of being used for surveying trees.

 

The training includes:

 

Theory:

• Introduction to thermodynamics (the study of heat);

• Heat properties of wood;

• Heat movement in the environment;

• The use of thermal imaging cameras to monitor environmental heat;

• The relationship between surface temperature and wood properties;

• The relationship between wood properties, structural stability and vitality of trees;

• Thermal properties and water stress;

• Identification of tree pests with thermal imaging.

 

Practical:

• Using a thermal imaging camera to measure the surface temperature of trees;

• Introduction to the translation of temperature data within thermal images (thermograms) in relation to what that can tell the tree thermographer about the wood properties.

 

Understanding the Tree Thermal Matrix System (TTMS) and the use of TTMS Software:

• Using the TTMS to calculate percentage functional wood in tree and how this can be used to assess the volume of decay;

• Using the TTMS to identify tree pests such as wood boring insects;

• Using the TTMS to identify water stress in transplanted trees.

 

For more information please reply to e-mail [email protected] or if you would like further information on the use of thermal imaging in the assessment of trees, please do not hesitate to ask.

 

Alternatively if you are not at the stage where you want to undertake the workshop training then there will be an opportunity to learn more about thermal imaging at a conference organised by the Australian ArborAge to be held in the Autumn next year (2011).

 

Thank you for your time in reading this posting.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

AusArborAge ThermalRev June10.pdf

[BatiArb]

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Just a quick update…..

 

There has been a lot of interest in the Training event in Brisbane and there is now only one place left.

 

 

 

 

 

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