Thermal imaging its here to stay

[BatiArb]

Thought it was worth sorting out Marcus's posting so the points were clearer. They are important.

 

Precision Arboriculture!! would appear to be a good way of explaining a tree management system that will save a great deal of money and ensure that arborists do the job we are trained to do as experts..... Tree Care

 

 

 

You can't be implying that a data capture device is infallible? Or that data translation is infallible? Junk in = Junk out. The image is a snapshot of the trees functionality for a given moment in time, all sampling methods have caveats. I'd be interested to know what yours are?

 

 

 

This point is very important. There are 'short term' changes in the amount of functional wood caused by prolonged drought but this is short term in the context of a tree, which is still a year or so. The equilibriums that are set up and analysed by the system take time to come about and so a measurement at any given time is a good represention of the status of the tree during a prolonged period.

 

There are of course limitations as to when you can take measurements. They must be during the day for example and most of the caveats realte to this. This is also why training is a good idea. There has been a great deal of emphasis on the colours in the past. These are just a representation of temperature, it is the temperature data that is important.

 

No system is infallible but a good sytem has checks and cross checks so that you know when it is close to fallibility. There are loads in TTMS. Also the system is constantly reviewed updated and improved, not because it is a bad system but because I am a cautious person who has worked in science for over 20 years and so knows that this is a requirement of ALL systems.

 

So if anyone trys to sell you anything the first question you should ask is how often is it reviewed and improved upon. The more this is done, the better the product (just look at the iphone/ipad what are we on version 4?).

 

 

 

How do you get TI/TTMS out of its niche? I think part of the PR war might be to avoid overstating its abilities and to clarify the language. This is not the future, it will not revolutionise arboriculture, the people who don't use it are not living in the dark ages, there is no new language - this is a handy tool which can help tree guys assess trees and decide what to do with them.

 

 

 

The dark ages bit is a little strong, but there are good analagies with the agriculture sector that we can draw upon. About 15 years ago I work as part of a group looking at precision agriculture, the aim was to target the area of crop that needed the fertiliser and chemicals not the whole crop.

 

It was not popular with farmers, equipment was expensive and the system was slow. Isn't this what we want to do with our trees? Target the ones that genuinely need the management and not just get the chainsaw out because it has a visual symptom. Again 10 yaers ago the equipment was expensive and the software slow. Now this has all changed. Not Sinclair C5, the Minidisc, the Amstrad email phone and yes, the Betamax.

 

Precision Arboriculture!!

[BatiArb]

 

How do you get TI/TTMS out of its niche? I think part of the PR war might be to avoid overstating its abilities and to clarify the language. This is not the future, it will not revolutionise arboriculture, the people who don't use it are not living in the dark ages, there is no new language - this is a handy tool which can help tree guys assess trees and decide what to do with them.

 

 

 

Tony,

 

Since this is clearly aimed at me.......

 

I do not have a problem with using such language because this is what I believe. I am passionate about trees and this technology offers us a fantastic opportunity to take our understanding to the next level.

 

It will enable us to manage trees more proactively in a more holistic way, with knowledge that allows us to plan pruning work that we know is actually beneficial to the tree(s).

 

You clearly have an issue with my use of the term dark ages to describe where we have been, well I am sorry you take such offence at this. Perhaps you should look in on your self and ask why........

 

Why are you so adverse to embracing change...?

 

Why are you so against the use of a tool that clearly provides us with a greater understanding and offers us opportunities to inform effective tree management?

 

Thermal imaging and the scientific knowledge that comes with it has revolutionised the way I look at trees and life as a whole.

 

It is a new visual language that I have had to learn in oder that I can then translate the images that the technology allows me to see.

 

It is totally up to you whether you wish to say in the dark and not experience the light. However, I continue to encourage you to join in and embrace the opportunity.......

 

If nothing else it is seriously COOL

[Amelanchier]

Andrew,

 

That's a lot of questions about me - I feel very priviledged.

 

Thank you for the personal implications regarding my philosophy and outlook. Whilst those that actually know me might describe them as petty and baseless I can see that they are bourne of your passionate drive for arboriculture. Your sincerity clearly precludes me from challenging or doubting you.

 

Furthermore, any scepticism I feel toward your psuedo-scriptural rhetoric must obviously derive from the depths of my repressed psyche and is not under any circumstances based on a wider opinion of your presentation style.

 

Can we all hold hands and chant praise to the earth mother while we dance round a healing crystal now? Don't laugh, I'm seriously passionate...

[Yorkshireman]

Believe me when you get hold of a thermal imaging camera you will be using it to look at everything. The dogs in the office are the first, but then it progresses to the computer key pad, heat loss from your house, your children's cold symptoms and in my case your unborn child.......

 

 

 

 

Already have matey

 

 

WHEN the insurance industry gets behind it........

 

IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME

[BatiArb]

.

 

Can we all hold hands and chant praise to the earth mother while we dance round a healing crystal now?

 

Don't laugh, I'm seriously passionate...

 

 

 

There is so much out there to experience we only have to open our minds and believe.......

 

 

The thermal image below might stimulate some thoughts in some.......

 

 

Interesting aura don't you think ?

 

.

[ben lightfoot]

I know this may be a bit of an ask but i believe last year (some time shortly after the southwest woodland show as thats where i saw you) you did a demo for a london council and jim mead was there from gristwood and toms (another one who is still yet to be won over i believe). I was told he was there with the picus to compare results, just wondering if they both complimented each other in the fact of giving similar results or if one showed findings the other did not?

[Amelanchier]

There is so much out there to experience we only have to open our minds and believe.......

 

Interesting aura don't you think ?

 

The X-files is soo nineties.

 

As I've said before, in my view the credibility of TI/TTMS is damaged by your choice of language. Your message to the consumer is confused - is it science or is it new age dross. Worse still, might it be some impotent hybrid.

 

My skepticism has always related to the claims surrounding the tech. MBT has patiently addressed many of the queries and doubts and I can see real benefits for the application of the system. No doubt Dr Catena's presentation to the Arb Conference in September will enlighten us further.

 

Insinuating that skeptical or disinterested people are closed minded, limited plebs who currently practice dark age (i.e., archaic and uniformed) arboriculture is a retrograde marketing step. Insulting your clientbase is a poor move.

[Amelanchier]

I might add that good science will survive even the strongest kicking.

[BatiArb]

 

Insinuating that skeptical or disinterested people are closed minded, limited plebs who currently practice dark age (i.e., archaic and uniformed) arboriculture is a retrograde marketing step. Insulting your clientbase is a poor move.

 

 

Tony,

 

This really is not the intention and I am sorry you feel that way. I simply speak from personal experience and belief in what i practice. However, I am quite prepared to be proven wrong and expect progress to transform the way I think.

 

 

 

My skepticism has always related to the claims surrounding the tech. MBT has patiently addressed many of the queries and doubts and I can see real benefits for the application of the system. No doubt Dr Catena's presentation to the Arb Conference in September will enlighten us further.

 

 

I agree and look forward to it.

 

However, it is important to understand the difference between the tree thermography methodology that Dr Catena has established and the use of TTMS software processing.

 

.

[BatiArb]

I might add that good science will survive even the strongest kicking.

 

 

I agree and the criticism makes it all the stronger.

 

As the title of the thread clearly says.....

 

 

Thermal Imaging is Hear to Stay.