CambridgeJC

On 16/04/2022 at 19:13, Mark J said:

We're simple folk, set your stall out in full and we'll look at and maybe buy the shiny things.
The way you approach a dataset should be in a fashion that will yield the most valuable results. 

Hello Mark. 
I am not ready to set out my stall quite yet as my current mission is to canvas opinion from educated arborists. So on advice I have set up a poll (Ivy in the UK) for all to view and participate irrespective of views for or against ivy. This way we can share in a snapshot poll of opinion driving our stance towards ivy as it exists in the UK now. Sadly we may have to suffer troll like behaviour of those who have a tendency to provoke and humiliate others here in this forum. They are mostly characterised by short inflammatory comments designed to elicit an emotional reaction and upset the target person. I have been tempted to give up on engaging arborists but believe such bad behaviour is still on the minority on this forum. Hopefully some good will come from my persistence regarding the potential to consider if ivy is being allowed to run riot or if this is not the case. At this point the jury is out but please get as many contacts to participate in the ivy poll. Thanks. John

23 minutes ago, gary112 said:

So my spelling is not good you say,fine by me.I can live with that.As for yourself,you come on here saying your being bullied and everyone trying to get a laugh out of you,well to be honest most of the shite your spouting on about is laughable,your making out that ivy is taking us over,it,s not,just the same as it,s always been,anyway going to build a bunker today to protect me from this ivy stuff that is taking over the country

Look…I was wrong to comment on spelling, so I repeat that I am sorry and say that in public. However the fact remains that there is a temptation on this forum to revert to foul language like “shite” and personal provocative personal attacks like “unhinged” which is displaying a rather different level of intentional abuse. I too can shoulder these but I still must call it out when I see it. Together with ridiculing a contributor in order to raise a cheap laugh these are inappropriate ways to respond to any serious subject. 
Some may consider my concern over ivy to be laughable but there are plenty of others in your community who do not. Please let us all respect other’s input. I will if you will. Let’s stop being provocative and engage with mutual respect. Thst is the correct way to behave on a public forum. 
Just accept my apology and move on. 
John

8 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Hey guys…you really have hidden talents 😂😂😂. Maybe there should be a competition for the best cartoon and perhaps the best poem…

I am genuinely happy to see this, even if you are taking the Mick about my clumsy attempts to engage you there. 
Enjoy the Easter break…what’s left of it. 

28 minutes ago, topchippyles said:

Are you taking drugs 🤪

Another guy trying to get a laugh at someone else’s expense…

26 minutes ago, Doug Tait said:

You were quick to complain about bullying but walking a fine line yourself. 

Not like being called “unhinged”, but if you provoke anyone enough you can expect a response. Sorry if I offended anyone but I have been subjected to rather more than this…

4 minutes ago, Dan Maynard said:

I just did a scientific survey and you called me uninformed.

 

Ivy surges and dies like other parts of the ecosystem, like the trees. You seem to have an idea the trees are fixed and the ivy will ruin them, this is false. The trees are also temporary and will all die too, to be replaced by other trees. Woodlands and hedges are dynamic.

 

I remember some real ivy monsters when Dutch elm disease had its latest surge, but there aren't so many big dead elms now. Maybe there will be ash trees full of ivy, maybe they will fall over too soon.

 

Ivy is not invasive by definition, it has been in our ecosystem most likely since soon after the last ice age. It can increase and decrease but it can't be invasive. We don't like it, it's a menace when climbing and hides defects in trees but it is not invading the countryside to the exclusion of native wildlife, in fact it's a really important food source for bees and other insects. When the host dies or the area becomes too hot or dry the ivy will die back. There are balances.

 

Rhododendron on the other hand is properly invasive and causes a real problem across Wales, Scotland and parts of England. Nothing native eats it.

 

I suggest Oliver Rackham's history of the countryside for perspective, and also of the way "conservation" tends to be fashion driven and short term. Bit like the idea of us rushing out to cut ivy because we suddenly decide we don't like it.

 

So, to summarise - you initially asked for professional opinions about whether ivy was taking over the countryside, and from hedge layers to tree surgeon we gave considered opinion that it is not. Enough now, I'm going back to discussing chainsaws and climbing like I usually do.

Thanks for this very well considered reply. I never suggested you personally were uninformed. This response proves that and I thank you for it. We are all just individuals with individual perspectives and different backgrounds and experience/expertise. 
I realise I am an outsider to your community but I believe you guys have a close relationship with such issues and for that reason alone I chose to try to engage with you all collectively in rhe hope of discovering your current attitude towards ivy. Having made frustrating contact with other relevant authorities it became clear that there seems to be very little awareness of the dynamic balance of ivy which appears so clearly evident from my own observations. I am simply trying to find whether I am alone in my observations. My replies both confirm and dismiss this. So I try to provoke discussion in an attempt to find the status of opinion in your arborist community.  That’s all. Thanks 

Oh. And by the way. Any action must be considered carefully before anyone rushes out to eradicate ivy. That’s not what I an suggesting. 

7 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

The problem is that you don't seem to want a discussion. As I've previously mentioned you patronise anyone that disagrees with you. Your tactics are similar to watching Piers Morgan interview someone.

 

How much research into this topic have you conducted apart from starting numerous threads on a forum where is impossible to verify a person's credentials?

 

There are many online arb courses you could enrol in if knowledge was your endgame, but that's not the case.

 

I'm guessing you're bored and nobody at home is listening to you any more. 

Good try!!! Maybe I have learned a lot more than you think…just because I am not an arborist doesn’t mean I know nothing. 
What makes you think I don’t want a discussion? That’s exactly what I do want. But with people who don’t simply want to dismiss an opinion from outside your community. 
Go for it…let’s get a mature discussion going on the issue of whether or not ivy has become invasive and potentially dangerously invasive unless we all recognise the results of neglect. 
That’s the whole point of my involvement. Thanks. John

8 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

He's partly pulling your chain mate, leave him to it. Me and trig get on and he can wind me up.

I know… seems I’ve managed to stir up a hornet’s nest here🤣🤣🤣

40 minutes ago, gary112 said:

We,re definately not in this together pal,your on your own with this🤣

Ouch! Spellling pleese…

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

You really don’t get it do you? 

So that’ll be a no then???

7 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Toys right outta pram when the opinions of professionals (not mine) contradict your obvious play. 
 

Sad sad man. 

Why the need to be so personal and insulting! What harm have I ever done to you?

OK …so a question for all you “professionals “…

Can a native plant become invasive?

Answer that properly and maybe we can have an educated discussion. 

Ouch…this may mean I have to think a bit and use my addled brain. 

2 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Something along these lines. Just spitballing....

 

Lovely. We’re all in this together 🤣🤣🥰. Ivy rules KO!!!  Ivy creeps up on you…before you know it , it’s in every little crevice…you’re quite right. 

13 minutes ago, Dan Maynard said:

Look at this picture and count the trees with ivy. Then count the ones without ivy on the other side of the road, same side of road and across the field to the right.

 

You asked for arborists opinion, there are a lot of trees with ivy, but there are a whole lot more without.

A pandemic starts with a single infection…draaaa!

Should this post run the title “Educating arborists”  ??? 
 

Fortunately most arborists are more informed rhan the critical ones on this  thread … 

8 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

The only way to purge the scourge from Albion's shores is mobilize the general population. Get everyone and their uncle out there, cutting three inch sections out of ivy stems with wee saws. Make the swiss army knife with the wee saw out the symbol of the campaign. Encourage people to get compulsive about it. "See something - sever something". Get the greenies on board and agitate for a high profile media stunt - motorway glueing etc.

 

I'll get to work on a graphic for the campaign and a slogan.

I like it.  You have a humorous bent🤣. Go for it buddy!  Have you seen the new poll about guess wgat…IVY…yeah!!!

21 minutes ago, Dan Maynard said:

He wandering round the whole flippin hospital now!

Is he?  Short comments come from an empty mind…

1 hour ago, Sutton said:

Are you political? Your rhetoric reminds me of the People's Front of Judea!

Re-read your stated soapboxing above and substitute ivy for anything "undesirable" and you'll see what I mean.

No. You managed to spell rhetoric correctly. Well done !!! But the rest doesn’t make sense. If you can’t take part in the poll just stay out. 

1 hour ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

Are you starting to see what I was referring to earlier?

 

 

No

Is ivy becoming an invasive species in the UK?

18 hours ago, Joe Newton said:

This is another exercise where you ask for opinions from people more experienced than you and then challenge those who disagree when it doesn't suit your narrative.

 

It's okay, we're all looking for attention here. 

When did I challenge someone who disagrees with me?  I don’t know if ivy is a problem. I am trying to find out. I am not an arborist but I do have eyes. If I challenge anyone it will be for bad language and bullying. To call someone unhinged is disrespectful and ignorant. To be in receipt of this sort of personal comment feels very like bullying when in a public forum. Trying to get a laugh at someone else’s expense. I respect informed opinion but not use of bad language or attempts to insult others. 

6 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

No one is fearful. It’s partially the way you’ve gone about asking people and how you personally come across.

So based on the above I’ll say Ivy IS and IS NOT a problem.

 

 

So how do I come across? You seem to object in some way. Just let me know and I will consider mending my ways. I don’t want to provoke anyone but I don’t suffer fools gladly. Just me I suppose. I am only trying to canvas opinion on ivy from working arborists. That’s all. Thanks for any help offered. 

33 minutes ago, gary112 said:

And finally you,ve got it,as your title says,Ivy is NOT a problem,thats sorted that then,case closed

Why does this topic seem to provoke such fear of mature discussion?

Just now, Doug Tait said:

To be fair, all Mick's posts aren't saying the same thing.

To be fair, all mine are friendly and non-confrontational. Just hoping to obtain some infomed input from arborists who are open to mature discussion of an important topic. In truth I an honoured to have attracted the attentions of Mick. He only engages with contributors who have a contentious point to explore. But he does not seem to like non-arborists getting involved in his area of expertise. I wonder why. I will now just focus on constructive and informative content. That includes especially people who have a different perspective to my own. The objective of my concern over ivy is whether I am justified in my observations. I am hoping a mature discussion may result from my posts. Thanks Doug

Fine one to talk buddy with your 11,578 posts

How long have you worked with trees?  Have you noticed an increasing level of ivy infestation in recent years?

38 minutes ago, htb said:

Snarling, you could not make it up.

You guys do have fun don’t you?🤣. All part of life’s rich tapestry 🤣🤣🤣. 
Any thoughts about ivy. Friend or foe?