CambridgeJC

23 hours ago, john87 said:

Can i just point out, that REGARDLESS of one's opinion of the argument that JC would seek to advance, personal attacks merely serve to both demean the attacker, amd more importantly, demean the forum itself..

 

What conclusions would a visitor gain concerning the professionalism of the collective members of this forum, having read some of the comments posted??

 

If you cannot say anything nice, or at least express disagreement nicely, far better to say nothing at all..

 

john..

 

 

Thanks John. You should replace the current administrators. Perhaps the site administrators and moderators could use this thread as a lesson on the  sort of behaviour that brings shame on all involved…the disrespectful contributor, their general support contributors, the administration, and finally the entire forum. There as real danger to outside visitors not used to such behaviour and if allowed to continue and escalate can be potentially very dangerous. 
I have finally decided to disengage from this entire arborist community despite the friendly and respectful posts from the more mature contributors for whose help I have to thank. I have learned a lot about ivy in the last week or so, but a lot more about your forum community and in particular the administration. Failure to enforce their own forum guidelines and even tempted to join in in a backhanded way! Not a pleasant experience and I hope someone learns from this as much as I have. Enjoy and thanks to John. 

23 minutes ago, Steven P said:

So I have read through the posts - all the ivy ones - and as far as I can tell there is little malice in them from the members, no real name calling (really - you should see some forums!), and the OP seams to be very quick to jump that the members here are being unfair with their comments, which they are not really. You'll always get a difference of opinion and always get curious members asking the reason for a post here or there and if you have an opinion ask what your background in the post subject is - might be you are curious, might be you are a renowned professor so we know the depth of your knowledge. Nothing wrong with knowing nothing and asking so you learn, nothing wrong with passing on the knowledge of a lifetime study and work. So as far as I can see, the discussion is no worse than many I have seen. Just the OP appears to have a chip on their shoulder that we are all out to get him - we're not, just voicing an opinion (like this first paragraph)

 

Have a sit back, listen to what people say without shouting that they are all trolling you (and long term members of a forum rarely troll people).

 

So ivy, you like it, some don't and we all have a reason for our opinions - a climber will hate it with a vengeance on a job for example, an ecologist will love it for birds nests and so on, a gardener might be 50-50, a farmer might not like it but will live with it or add it as yet another job to do... all valid reasons.

 

Me, I am no big fan of it purely for aesthetic reasons - doesn't look good - and I associate it with older woodlands that could do with some care and attention. On a house - never, roots into all the mortar and pulls it apart.,

Thanks. But check out the full trail of Getting rid of ivy!!  The bad posts start on p7 and develop intensity from there on. When you are in receipt of such posts then it becomes a distraction and you become defensive and ultimately reactive. It is the sort of behaviour that good social media promote guidelines to prevent as not all contributors can take such behaviour. It amounts to bullying and is considered inappropriate. I abhor a bully. So I call them out. Most do not intend to be so and apologise. But a intentional bully will never apologise. He or she will continue to offend deliberately. That’s what they do. 
But that’s enough of that. I consider ivy is gaining ground in the UK in my region at least so I am enquiring about other regions in this forum. It is an open ended enquiry and not one to close off just because you or I hold any strong opinion. Or anyone else for that matter. 
 

11 minutes ago, topchippyles said:

John a few of the guys are have replied ivy is not an issue but its like you have an obsessive compulsiveness about the stuff. 

Fine. But a few of the guys have said it is an issue. So there’s a good reason to expand in both directions. No? A bit like ivy!!!

On 17/04/2022 at 11:09, Stephen Blair said:

If the trees are owned by someone or a company, landowner, council that don’t keep on top of their maintenance which would benefit the trees then Ivy will lead to problems if it grows there.  
 To reduce the amount of Ivy I would recommend cutting it back to a point where there is not as much of it and still has leaf so not to eradicate it. 

If you were asked if ivy in the UK is being allowed to proliferate both upwards and outwards in an invasive style of growth habit …what would be your considered opinion? An open question…

1 hour ago, Conor Wright said:

What you're seeing is part of a natural cycle in the lifetime of a woodland tree, poor hedge management may be a different story, but ivy can be a part of a mixed hedge to a degree. The abandonment of proper hedgerow maintenance in favour of electric fencing has reduced the ability of livestock to nibble away at ivy leaves but it's not as if its starting to invade the fields!

Ash dieback is certainly helping the visibility of ivy but its just a natural reaction of a plant being given a better chance to grow. 

What is this big thinking you speak of? 

To be honest, we're mostly straightforward hardworking people here and your style of language may come across as speaking down to some of us. A little less formality might help get you a bit further. 

In an ideal world minor offenders would be out doing the dirty work like litter picking, keeping overgrowth down on verges etc, then there wouldn't be this ivy issue you speak of, or a litter issue which is far more environmentally damaging. A lot of England is plain filthy. At least the ivy helps hide the rubbish.

Thanks Conor. Interesting you pick me up on language. I am down to earth myself and not used to having such claims levelled against me. Very strange. Something about the written word I guess. 
I do certainly not talk down to hardworking guys. I am or was one myself in my own way. Retired now but running on all four cylinders hopefully. 
I choose to involve myself in various topics of interest. Ivy encroachment has become one. You should understand that lots of our teaching vhas proved to be different from reality in many areas. So we must all question what we are taught. Age gives you this valuable asset. I was a bit of a rebel in my youth. I retained this during working life and set uo my own company to bring new technologies to market in purification of bioproducts proteins and finally viruses etc. That’s my background but I enjoy photography and love nature in general. 
Tell me about yourself. We all have a story to tell. And interests to share. 
Please share your experience with us here. It will help us to understand each orher and hopefully respect our input on the common issue of ivy in our countryside. Cheers. John 

16 hours ago, Joe Newton said:

This should be interesting...

 

It's fair to say that you've been dismissed by a few including myself as an irritating poster with little merit to the conversation that makes this forum enjoyable to many.

 

This has possibly been because of your dismissive or provocative attitude to the time served tree workers who have wasted their time replying to you when it doesn't suit your narrative.

 

It's nothing to do with your lack of arb background. There's plenty of long standing contributors who aren't in the arb industry specifically. It's to do with your attitude. You ask for opinions and demand credentials from those who reply, and yet you offer nothing in return.

 

This whole post is pointless though. People like yourself are incapable of introspect.

People like me eh?

What would they be like then?

2 hours ago, Conor Wright said:

But  ivy doesn't go unchecked, it's constantly kept in check by arborists, landscapers, maintenance crews, farmers, livestock and by the constraints of nature. 

It's benefits outweigh it's negatives in the natural world so it should not be eradicated and its potential to cause damage is well known within engineering and construction circles so it is kept in check. Within arb it's well known to be a pita but also an intrinsic part of the ecosystem and is managed as such by most. 

If you want to discuss actual problems in arb or trees generally maybe a discussion on imported pests and diseases or the failure to plant adequately for the future?

Ivy is,has and always will be. Its not gonna cross the road in the morning and invade your house and its not gonna disappear either. You could have the same argument about moss, It's part of nature's cycle. 

Out of interest what are you planning to do with the information you're gathering here? 

Fwiw you would probably have furthered your own cause more by just nipping out and cutting whatever ivy it is that bothers you the most rather than overthinking it on here!

I’d have a job with that😂😂😂

This seems countrywide but certainly all over East Anglia. Old Mill Tree Care’s description is spot on. We both see rampant ivy clogging up hedgerows and increasingly thicker at height in the canopy. I don’t know if it can be controlled. But it certainly cannot be if is not taken seriously. 
Ivy certainly grows unchecked in large swathes of our countryside and probably due to modern farming practices and land ownership/management. 
That’s the reason for my intervention here. 
Just hoping for your thoughts as if my concerns are real then some big thinking is required.

If you think I am wrong then I hope the situation doesn’t escalate. I am open to persuasion. 

4 hours ago, Sutton said:

What have we got?

What's changed and why?

Are we going to do anything about it and who's paying?

What makes you think I have jumped to a conclusion? 
I am simply asking if anyone else has noticed a slow steady increase in ivy which could amount to us allowing it to become a problem for trees and hedgerows. There are certainly some other people here who appear to support the hypothesis. 
I have a lifetime of scientific method behind me and do not jump to conclusions. That’s why I am persisting in the quest for educated input from you guys. Firstly I asked for information which I needed to minimise risk of saying anything stupid. Then I felt able to ask for feedback and observations. This is still in progress and on advice I initiated a poll which may be helpful. But I have certainly not come to any conclusion. And to date noone has commented on my suggestion that a native species like ivy can or cannot become invasive in a growth expansion context. 

1 hour ago, Gimlet said:

Is ivy a real problem? 

 

To whom or to what?

 

To the tree surgeon? Yes I would say. Makes work more difficult, dangerous and costly.

To a hedge layer (like myself)? Yes. Does smother, out-shade and out-compete small tree specimens in hedges, and makes the work more difficult and incurs greater labour costs which the customer is rarely willing to pay.

To wildlife? No. Extremely rich habitat.

To veteran trees? Probably not unless they're on their last legs anyway.

To tree diversity? No. They have co-existed for thousands of years without detriment.

To the wider natural environment? No.

To buildings and man-made structures? Definitely. A PITA.

To livestock? No. 

 

Case concluded.

 

Good summary but with the proviso that the current levels of observable ivy  may indicate a slow and more uncontrolled expansion which can in future cause a major headache for us all if allowed to go unchecked. That’s the reason I am engaging with you arborists. Some of you, notably Old Mill Tree Care’s observations in Norfolk seem to indicate such a possibility. 
I do not dismiss those whose experience say there is no problem. On the other hand there are those who are very dismissive of my contention. The discussion merits proper and mature engagement from both perspectives. 
It is not really a case conclusion situation quite yet in my opinion. Thanks for your helpful summary. 

30 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

I dont usually use a can to go anywhere to be honest 

Ha ha. Missed that one. At college in the 70’s we referred to our cars as cans. It was a far better description. 

1 hour ago, john87 said:

Can i just point out, that REGARDLESS of one's opinion of the argument that JC would seek to advance, personal attacks merely serve to both demean the attacker, amd more importantly, demean the forum itself..

 

What conclusions would a visitor gain concerning the professionalism of the collective members of this forum, having read some of the comments posted??

 

If you cannot say anything nice, or at least express disagreement nicely, far better to say nothing at all..

 

john..

 

 

Well said. 

3 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

 

Add me to the list.

Thanks. No problem but just think how it could feel to be on the receiving end of an outright insult or disrespect. Banter is fine but not when it’s aggressive. The word crank came up but has been deleted. It should never have been said. The world turns on cranks. You’d get nowhere in your can without one🤣🤣

On 18/04/2022 at 20:53, Stubby said:

I walked through an FC woodland today . I stretches from the top road they call the bengies next to Goodwood estate down to Droke lane if anyone wants to google it . Got to be 100 acres . Predominately a beech plantation with some Larch , Spruce and Ash . Its had second thinnings in the past with racks cut . Recently a timber extradition of , at a guess ,  mabey12% of the standing  ash  . The trees left are on an average 3ft DBH .  There is some ivy but very little . The vast majority of trees are clean . Over the whole plantation I would say 0.5% have ivy on them . Just an observation today .

Thanks Stubby. You’re right. I have been sidetracked by the number of dismissive and disrespectful attempts by others to try to humiliate and provoke me as an outsider from your community. Your comments are fully accepted by me as indeed those of the previous post by Old Mill Tree Care. These posts represent a reasonable and perfectly acceptable post ehich sticks to the point and is both courteous and informative. 

It is sad when others hijack a thread to insult and belittle others. So thanks to you. John

2 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It’s not really about Ivy anymore for this bloke is it?

Sasly no. You managed to push it off course by your personal remarks and attempts to belittle your target who you consider an outsider who you assume has no knowledge and who you believe does not have the right to observe something you clearly have never considered seriously before and which you enjoy bating. Your behaviour breaches basic rules of good respectful behaviour and the administration seems unwilling to review the evolution of the threads in which you clearly enjoy provocative personal remarks designed to belittle and raise a laugh with your colleague arborists. I am no different from many other contributors who prefer to protect themselves from more sinister personal abuse from people like you by maintaining a posting name only. Soon I will provide a bit more to show I am not a total dumbo as you would have me seem. Have a good laugh now. John. 

12 hours ago, Steve Bullman said:

People have been saying this for 16 years, usually when they can’t get their own way over something, yet we are still here.

 

You are obviously passionate about this subject but have approached it as if it’s already a scientifically proven fact, whilst at the same time rubbishing the opinions of the professional arborists on this forum, some of who have been working with trees and ivy for 30+ years. Using big words and well laid out sentences to belittle other members opinions is no better than some of what you have received in return as far as I’m concerned.

 

goodbye, and I wish you luck in finding a platform more suitable for discussing this with people who won’t disagree with you. 

Your final sentence includes a highly provocative suggestion that directly goes against your own posting guidelines. Designed to belittle me and suggest that my own posts are designed to belittle others. Please explain why you decided to send that parting shot because this is not the measured reply of a fair and impartial administrator or moderator. Please read paragraph 4 especially of those guidelines. You seem happy enough to allow someone to call me unhinged in this public forum which I found abusive. 
Maybe this is because I am a new visitor here from outside your arborist community?  You may need to follow the posting trail to discover action and reaction. I came here in good faith but have not enjoyed the behaviour of some contributors. Sorry to say this. John

55 minutes ago, Doug Tait said:

Welcome back! As you're here, interested to find out what science you do, or have done? 

Bioscience. Why do you ask? Is this the beginning of a mature discussion on ivy? Or a continuation of the anti-scientist dismissal of someone who is not an arborist. Someone who explicitly stated this in his original quest for help for facts and opinions from arborists?

Someone who has gained a great deal of information since making contact with this forum. I look forward to a friendly discussion with knowledgeable people who accept people with different views and perspectives. We are all never too old to learn. None of us know everything even after 30 years or more in any discipline. Friend or foe?

4 minutes ago, topchippyles said:

If the cap fits the old saying goes.

So that’s two of you now…any more who enjoy taking a poke at others in this forum? Mick???

On 18/04/2022 at 19:28, topchippyles said:

We had another crackpot on here a while back who called his self (scottish cleaning services) He was a troll total nutjob 🤭

Does it make you feel good to insult another person like this?

9 hours ago, Haironyourchest said:

Does it make you feel good to post an image loke this?

7 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Toodle-pip 👍

Prat

8 minutes ago, Mesterh said:

I could point you in the direction of some decent weed killer but I don't want to derail the thread with big farmer. 

 

Ivy, it sucks when you have to remove it. That's all I have on the subject.

 

Thanks. But arborists in general seem not to care. So I am moving away from this forum. Its full of people who take pleasure in ridiculing victims and enjoying provoking targets. I’m off and have to leave the good guys to pick up the pieces. Trolls and narcissists. They will eventually destroy your platform. Bye…🤣🤣🤣

2 hours ago, Old Mill Tree Care said:

I recently drove past a small woodland in Norfolk. They were the only trees within eyesight.
Every tree was engulfed with Ivy with only 10% poking out the top.
I’m a few years the Ivy will engulf 100% of every tree then every tree will die.
The only woodland in an area devoid of trees.
I’ve also watched every park and roadside in my area become engulfed with Ivy noticeably during the last 20years. It used to be ‘unnoticeable’ and now it’s an obvious horror.
During the last storm most trees that fell were covered with Ivy.

Thanks. But I’m off. Keep the ball rolling. Good luck 

So much for arborists…wasting my time trying to get a mature discussion going…bye…

29 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

I use my real name on the forum, I live in France, any google search will give you my address and everything else.

You are anonymous.

Who is the troll?

You are a retired scientist, tell us about your field of expertise and how it relates to this subject.

 

You are buddy. 

17 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Ahh, I see the problem.

For the record I have zero respect for your input, you have no experience, qualifications or relevant knowledge.

 

They do  give me a laugh, I’ll admit that.

The Easter weekend of 2022 will always be Crazy Ivy Man weekend on Arbtalk so you’ve left your mark I suppose.

“ A troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception.” 
 

Like..  designed to upset the recipient and even calling him unhinged perhaps. Maybe designed to humiliate or diminishing the recipients self esteem. 
 

You my friend are behaving like a troll. Maybe you are now being called out   I invite anyone to review your miserably disparaging and ignorant comments designed to raise a laugh at my expense. Over my head it goes  again but maybe an administrator would care to check your contributions out. 
 

Have a nice day 🤣🤣🤣