pete_08

4 minutes ago, DanHorrich87 said:

So you got cs39? When I did it 9 year ago one of the instructors said climbers most often cut their left forearm and groundies their left thigh. You've seen the research? Have things changed?

The problem is the figures are hard to come by. They’re either not collected or not public. Or in the case of minor injuries, they’re never reported. That’s why I need to come on to forums to ask for people’s experience. 

I'm not claiming to be a pro, I'm simply trying to gather other people's experience. 

The saw did pinch a few times yes.

I was chopping a tree that was already felled. There were branches to cut off before chopping the main trunk into more manageable logs for fire wood. I thought the chopping of the branches was particularly dangerous as there were trips hazards. I also felt that the chain would catch easily on branches other than the one I was cutting. There were also times I felt some kickback.

15 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Still at it Pete?

Have you taken the opportunity (since you last asked about this in October) to use a saw? What saw were you using and to do what?

 

Yea, this project is still on going, its pretty lengthy.

I've used a saw but really want to gather more than just my own experiences. 

I'm carrying out a bit of research around chainsaws for a project in university.

Have you ever had a close call or an injury?

I would appreciate any discussion around chainsaw injuries. No names will be taken, no insurance companies contacted so feel free to be open in your comments. This is for my own understanding of the types of injuries/ potential injuries involving chainsaws. 

Whether it was you, a friend or "a friend" involved in a close call or incident, all information will be useful and appreciated. 

Cheers!

2 hours ago, Paul in the woods said:

The link needs editing as it doesn't link to your survey, (works if cut and pasted into a tab)

 

I'm not sure what I would class myself, not a pro user but I've built up some experience over the years.

 

When you mention safety device I tend to think of those tip protectors that I would think would just get in the way and perhaps cause problems in themselves.

If you think of the questionnaire asking about the ideal safety protection, one that works reliably and does not get in the way. Would you pay for that? 
 

That is our goal. 

2 hours ago, Steven1210 said:

Survey not there

Should work now, thanks 

I am currently carrying out research regarding chainsaw safety.

We are targeting users with less experience of a chainsaw to get their thoughts behind how safe they feel when using a chainsaw and if it was possible would they pay for a more safe product.

I would greatly appreciate if you could fill in the survey from the following link, it will only take 20 seconds, cheers;

QUB Chainsaw Research Survey

WWW.SURVEYMONKEY.CO.UK

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Web survey powered by SurveyMonkey.com. Create your own online survey now with...

I am aware that the best way to improve safety when operating a chainsaw is through good training and the correct use of PPE. However these elements may not always be present as is evident though the injury stats.

If you are a more experienced user, please feel free to fill out the survey as you would have when you first started out.

Also, feel free to throw about some thoughts in the comments, thanks. 

2 minutes ago, Spruce Pirate said:

In the professional user world I believe most of us are well protected by PPE in the UK, obviously there are some who don't always wear it for whatever reason, but the majority of the time the majority of users are well protected by their PPE so the little American diagram posted before from 1994 I don't think applies here.  In a tree a professional climber is vulnerably in the upper body and arms - experience, work position and sensible use of the saw can all mitigate this.  On the ground a professional wood-cutter is far more likely to be killed or injured by falling objects than the saw.  I suspect the majority of injuries from chainsaws are amongst the amateurs who have neither the skill, experience or PPE to protect them.  Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view you can't legislate for these, however as professional users their injuries impact us all as it makes people see chainsaws as even more dangerous.

 

In answer to your question, I don't think there is a better solution to the current system, perhaps some sort of auto-brake if your fingers release the trigger?  Assuming most people release the trigger if the chain contacts their body perhaps this might stop a chain momentarily earlier?  But, it is one more thing to go wrong, particularly if electronic, has weight implications and might not make much difference.....

I completely agree with your first part there. 
 

I think it is still worth while trying to protect the armature. There were something like 28,000 chainsaw related injuries in America last year. If like we agree most of these will be by the untrained, lacking PPE amateur, then we should design something to reduce that number. 

3 minutes ago, gdh said:

I think a chain brake is the most practical solution. Maybe improved chainsaw gear would be a better thing to look at rather than the saw?

 

The only better thing than the brake handle I can think of is sensors on your hands, shins and neck are that engage the brake electronically but I doubt that's practical.

 

Any braking system also has to balance the risk of it stopping during a felling cut 

I think if the user is wearing all the correct PPE and is trained in using a chainsaw then the risk of injury has been greatly reduced. I believe that most injuries occur when the PPE and training do not exist and that is where I’m trying to reduce the risk of injury 

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

I don’t think anyone is suggesting the Saw is at fault but potentially how to improve saw safety to better protect the user from him/herself. We have PPE and the brake for the very reason of protecting the user from himself so why not look into improving on the designs if it’s at all possible?

Yea this is the point of my post to bounce around some ideas and catch a vibe. 
 

What do you mean improving on the designs? Of the existing PPE and brake? 
 

My problem is if people are getting injuries because they aren’t wearing their PPE, that may not be the chainsaw manufacturer responsibility but could the risk of injury still be reduced by a modification to the chainsaw (like a device as stated)

10 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

It’s a noble project Pete, but I don’t think it’s got legs.

 

I have a book I can lend you called ‘Chainsaw injuries that were the chainsaws fault’.

 

It will be cheap to post, it has no pages.

I would agree that most injuries are human error but that’s not to say nothing should to be done to help prevent those injuries. 

1 minute ago, 5thelement said:

Every incident I know of involving people being cut by the saw are down to user error, work positioning or taking short cuts/risks, nothing to do with how slow the chain brake activated.

Yes I would say a very high percentage of injuries come down to human error. 

I’m suggesting a device that could even prevent injury against human error by detecting it and stopping the chain. 

The proper solution would be to have every chainsaw user fully trained in how to use a chainsaw but I believe people would be more likely to buy a device or a chainsaw with the device fitted to decrease their chances of injury rather than take a chainsaw course. 

48 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Ok cool. A fresh pair of eyes can sometimes see things from outside the box. But I fear that if the big guns in the industry has not found a solution yet there might not be one and we’ll continue to have Darwin Award contenders for some years yet. 
 

One bit of tech to look into is the Table Saw Attachment that can be retrofitted to just about any table saw and as soon as it senses contact with flesh is jambs the blade instantly without even breaking the skin. The blade and system is goosed and both need replaced but you get to keep your fingers. I suspect it’s activated by electrical current so might never cross over to ChainSaws but could be worth looking into. 

Yes I believe it essentially senses moisture. Which could be a disaster for the chainsaw. 
I do think your point on the big guns not figuring it out is very valid and something I fear before heading too deep into research on this. 

3 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

What’s your interest in this? Academic or financial?

 

 

Academic as I need a project but I will also need a business plan I guess there is some theoretical financial interest in the long run. 

That is fair. 
 

My problem is that there are still plenty of chainsaw injuries every year. It is difficult to find data on the types of injuries caused with a chainsaw but I would assume it would be from lost control and mostly by beginners. 

Thank you for the replies and in sights.

Do you still think that a device that stops the chain early would result in less injuries for the inexperienced user even if the user is doing something that you may regard as stupid

I'm currently carrying out a bit of research into the safety of chainsaws for my MEng Electrical and Electronic Engineering Degree.

Chainsaws cause a lot of injuries every year and can seem a bit dangerous to the beginner. 

I am aware that there are safety mechanisms in place such as the chain brake, operated by hand or via inertia, however people still get injured.

It would appear that naturally applying the chain brake by your left wrist in a dangerous situation comes with training and/or experience.

My understanding of the inertial brake is that it requires an reactive force by the user, which again comes more naturally with training and/or experience. 

Would an electronic device that can sense abnormal movements (sudden changes in angle or position) and apply the brake quicker than the novice user make the chainsaw a more welcoming tool for the beginner?

I understand that the chainsaw may still hit the user, however injury would be reduced by a multitude as the chain will have stopped.

I am open to any comments or further advice.