ArbMish

I'm glad to see things are moving..I've been assured that everything is now with the events team so it should be all good.

Anyone else seen the email about the Scottish Branch AGM??

..I'm going to try and go but damn it's far south!

Hi Amy, "thank you."
 
My work email is [email protected] ...I look forward to reading your email and getting something moving for March 2018.
 
Best,
Paul
 

1 hour ago, beechwood said:

My hope is that this kind of prosecution will lead to more companies realising if they need to employ fully qualified staff and have good work procedures in place or they are risking a £25k fine if things go wrong.
Surely this will promote higher standards, help weed out the idiots and is in the long term better for the whole industry.

Of course it might just be a unachievable pipe dream but I live in hope.

 

After finally managing to read the entirety of this thread I thought I'd add a little somthing.

I agree with beechwood, there seems to be a lack of training after getting tickets within our industry. I can only talk from my own experience of course but here goes..

I'm only in my 3rd year of Arb' specific work and bar college/uni holidays I've always been part time. I've never lied about how much experience I have as I wanted to learn and I didn't see the point in lying about it...you're just gonna get caught out and your employer isn't gonna be too happy with you. Also I always made it clear I was studying horti/arb at college and only working part time...

I started with a company that had employed staff of 5/6 with myself added on top of that so a fairly big team (in my experience anyway). The boss wasn't on most jobs (he was transitioning away from doing the heavy work for health reasons I think) but there was a gaffer. I was given pretty minimal 'training' - how to mix fuel, how to use their model of chipper etc. After that, pretty much nothing. Even at times when there would have been 'time' to give such training. For example, I struggled cross cutting larger timber because I had never done it. Sometimes we ended up on yard days because of weather/cancellations whatever where there was the time for someone to show me but it never happened. I just got told to get on with it.

I've since left this company and subbed with a few others...I can now look back and say I think part of the reason for lack of training on the job was: the boss not pushing it to happen, time to get jobs done, the guys I was working with not having an awful lot of training either and also all of them not taking into account I was a part time member of staff. There's only so much experience you can gain part time, especially with people who are unwilling to offer advice/training. I now look back and see that I was often expected to know a lot of things without being shown/told etc. I think this company may have been quite lucky with me as I'm naturally very cautious (perhaps too much sometimes), I also tend to keep an eye on everyone I'm working with and I'm studying arb so had a fair amount of knowledge coming in from outside sources..if it had been someone else with a cocky attitude and a less cautious nature then things may have gone south. Toward the end I often found it was me training new staff members on use of the chipper and showing them the hand signals we used...not the gaffer or someone else on the team. 

I think there needs to be a real push within the industry for training after tickets. As I said I've since worked for a few other companies - I was very choosy who I worked for after leaving the aforementioned company, if they didn't sound like I'd get the training/advice I needed I didn't bother. - I now work with people who recognise I know what I'm doing (to a certain extend) and I have knowledge gained at college but they don't expect miracles. They give me a chance to learn new things whenever possible and they don't expect me to know everything. Likewise they offer plenty of tips and advice and don't make me feel stupid if I don't know something. 

Not being made to feel stupid I think is hugely important because if you're made to feel stupid at work you're going to ask less questions and do things just by assumption..which I'd say in our industry is pretty dangerous. I overheard a couple of my friends at college talking about a 16 year old kid they'd had in for his first day on the job. They were on about how hard they worked him and how he wasn't very strong. I just thought: ffs this is a 16 year old, what 16 year old is really strong? Unless they're some kind of bodybuilder?! Now that kid may end up feeling stupid and not ask questions where he should..

I also agree with whoever said working in the forest is good for those in Arb I had the opportunity to go into the forest just yesterday and that was some experience! Again with a decent guy who knows the experience would be good for me. He felled the big spruces and I snedded them. We don't deal with an awful lot of big trees in Arb so this was a big learning curve but damn it was a good one! Equally it was great to have someone there to give advice and ask questions of.

What I'm saying is I hope that this incident will push the industry to start taking training after tickets more seriously and also knock some of the bravado out - especially when it comes to dealing with those new to the industry.

Just my thoughts..

Yep undo the Knut and make sure it goes on the right way. Also keep an eye on the washer, make sure it all goes back together how it came basically.

And don't worry I thought exactly the same thing when I got mine!

 I don't think this is specifically correct. There isn't a license for example so a licensed contractor does not exist so cannot be a legal requirement. Works carried out by a 'qualified' person with nationally recognised certification is probably more accurate. Although that said there is no legal reason a land/home owner cannot treat JK themselves.
 
'Legally' you cannot knowingly let it spread. It is not 'illegal' to have it on your land. The issue nowadays is civil action and people making a claim against you for costs. Residents claiming costs from a neighbour for damage to a patio for example. You still need to be able to demonstrate on balance of probability the infestation started on their land and not yours. Not easy to do in all cases.
 

 I don't think this is specifically correct. There isn't a license for example so a licensed contractor does not exist so cannot be a legal requirement. Works carried out by a 'qualified' person with nationally recognised certification is probably more accurate. Although that said there is no legal reason a land/home owner cannot treat JK themselves.
 
'Legally' you cannot knowingly let it spread. It is not 'illegal' to have it on your land. The issue nowadays is civil action and people making a claim against you for costs. Residents claiming costs from a neighbour for damage to a patio for example. You still need to be able to demonstrate on balance of probability the infestation started on their land and not yours. Not easy to do in all cases.
 

I work with a guy who has senna Bluetooth headsets, they're for motor bikes I believe..but they're not hard to fit.

I think they're great, they completely change the job!

I think you need to be careful with Knotweed, by law you have to be a licensed contractor to deal with it and it's removal. Because it's capable of regrowing from tiny tiny pieces.

As far as I was taught once removed arising needed to be burnt because of that risk. I can't say for sure as I'm not a licensed to deal with it.

You can receive an ASBO for not controlling knotweed that's on your property. There are a few strict laws when it comes to dealing with it, I think they're nation wide but it may just be in Scotland.

This could have all changed ..it's what I was taught in college two years ago but I can't see them changing it.

21 hours ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

...2018 [emoji3]

I have just spoken to someone at the Forestry College (Inverness) and they are willing to host AA events and workshops! 

Of course the details will need to be worked out but still great news. I've suggested starting with Duncan's as he's confirmed he would be happy to run his tree forks workshop but if something else's ran first it wouldn't matter. All depends on availability and interest I'm sure.

I'll email Steve and I can cc you in too Paul, if you want to send me your email address?

Oh and I should have signed this off before I guess...

Amy

On 01/12/2017 at 12:57, Steve AA Marketing Officer said:

 

A few comments have implied we put little effort into doing courses up north and in Scotland or not run any, these are numbers from the past few years:

 

Training Events held in the North:

(Not including ArbAC Prep Workshops in these as that doesn’t really count)

2016: 9 Courses (4 had to be cancelled)

2017: 6 Courses

2018: 5 Courses Scheduled

 

Training Events held in Scotland:

2016: 5 Courses

2017: 5 Courses

 

Scotland Branch is doing really well across the board and has got a lot of numbers, so as was the case in this year there will be courses added to the Calendar. The Branches now have stronger marketing support from HQ – so where Cornwall had struggled to get bums on seats this year they’ve had some great numbers including 80 on their Autumn Seminar day!

 

In short, if there is a course you want to see and there is enough interest, then we’ll do our best to facilitate an event locally.

Hi Steve,

Thank you for this. I would be interested to know where the courses in Scotland were held? If you saw the original post one of my main points was the lack of courses held North of the Scottish central belt. Perhaps some were held closer to home and we're just not hearing about them. I would appreciate more advertising of Scottish courses, I read almost every AA email so even an email would work.

I do understand that there is little membership in the North of Scotland but it is a bit of a chicken in egg, you won't get the members if you don't run anything close to the North. I would also like to add that the only place to offer an Arboriculture degree in Scotland is in Inverness. I'm in my second year of study at the Forestry College and I don't recall seeing the AA have any direct interaction with the College. We recently had a visit from Gristwood and Toms which was really valuable. If you want to raise your membership in Scotland I would suggest starting here. If people are studying arb' then they are already on the right path to becoming professionals so surely students would be the perfect target audience. Likewise if you collaborate with the college (as I was intending to) then you have a space with the right infrastructure to run events/workshops/talks etc. It may even be free!

I'll send you an email about this as well but I thought I'd leave a public comment to allow others to comment.

I appreciate your efforts and I'll fill out the survey of course.

6 minutes ago, htb said:

join the club

 

Then I guess you have each other

Ps: In my experience all tree surgeons smell so that's not a valid reason here

2 minutes ago, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi said:

"The North" is a bit vague. I am assuming you mean somewhere like Inverness.

If so. Yes I would.

 

Yes sorry..mind was on something else. Hoping to run it at the Forestry College if possible.

Could you spread the word to anyone else who you think may attend.

21 hours ago, scotspine1 said:

To be fair the Scottish Branch has run many interesting courses, seminars, workshops and meetings over the last 20 years or so. This year for example: Chris Simpson of Informed Trees ran a seminar on hazard tree assessment. Slater presented his theories on branch forks. There was a recent climbing workshop in Cumbernauld. The free to attend AGM in Dundee had Kevin Frediani of Inverewe Gardens and Keith Sacre of Barchams Trees giving interesting talks. 

 

Seen many people come and go at the Scottish Branch events over the last 20 years. All associations or club type organisations are cyclical by nature, you get a few core enthusiastic folk for 5-6 years then they move on for various reasons: have a family, move away, leave arb altogether etc.

 

In the meantime things get quiet for a while then more enthusiastic folk appear and things start happening again. 

 

As an example in the late 90s to mid 2000s the Scottish Branch ran well attended treeclimbing  comps in conjunction with the ISA at various venues around Scotland. These events stopped completely but the Scottish Branch continued putting on relevant climbing related workshops. 

 

If you want more AA representation and events in Scotland join the Scottish Branch and help put on events and suggest ideas. Alternatively start a new organisation call it Arb Scotland or whatever you want and organise events yourself with a few like minded people. You don't need the AA to do anything. Even a Facebook group could organise a couple of events/speakers/workshops every year. 

 

I missed this reply amongst the others.

I agree we perhaps don't need the AA to organise such things. Which is why I contacted Duncan directly and I am willing to organise a venue as well. The main issue is funding, as Duncan said the AA provide the funding for him to do his workshops. The other end of the stick is that we pay for an AA membership and don't seem to be getting much out of it, especially if you are anywhere North of Edinburgh. We're also encouraged to work towards being accredited but again are not offered the workshops/classes/talks etc that would help gain the accreditation. 

Personally I feel yes you are right we could start are own organisation but we already have one with the groundwork/public awareness/structure/members etc already present, we should be getting the benefit of that. 

On the other note of this thread, would you be interested in Duncan's workshop if it was run in the North?

5 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

Can you see the chicken and egg situation?

 

There's no point in having quality people in an industry when no-one outside the industry even recognizes the importance of trees. Try standing on a site with a chartered engineer, project manager, geologist etc, you're still the 'tree man' Where's no arboriculturist high in the department of the environment. 

 

So where should the industry, or the AA, be directing their energies, for the people doing the job, or to raise the industries standing so that the people doing the job are recognised as professionals and viewed by others as professionals. 

 

 

Is it not one and the same? If you give those doing the job the means to learn more in order to 'be better at it' (for want of a different way of saying it). Then the standard will be higher, it also means those same people are able to explain to customers why they are doing a certain thing. That knowledge gains respect. When you act like a professional - standards, knowledge etc - you are viewed as one are you not?

I'm not saying every customer would listen but there are people like that everywhere. Plenty of times I've explained to customers why I'm doing or not doing something and each time they've listen and been impressed and then passed this on to other people. I'm travelling almost 100miles to go to college to learn more, to be better than 'someone who can use a chainsaw'. However to learn anything outside of college I have to travel to the borders or England. As I understand it a lot of Scotland is made up of small businesses, it's hard to finance the training, travel, accommodation and loss of work to attend something when it's over a hundred miles away. Therefore justifying going is that much harder. I would think if you make courses more easily available then they are more likely to be attended, thus leading to people in the industry having more knowledge/respect.

There is now heavy arboriculture involvement in construction where there wasn't before. Protecting root zones for example, in some cases this is now even monitored using TMS. Tree protection is becoming a much higher priority within council planning. Air spading to deal with root compaction in street trees is more widely used, for example. We are behind in Scotland for sure but should we not begin the change at the roots and let it work up?

20 hours ago, Andymacp said:

 

Ah cock, I’ll get back in my box

 

I would still say that a handful of courses run in a year in the whole..sorry the southern part of Scotland... isn't enough. There is so much talk on improving our industry and making it better respected but we don't get much chance to better ourselves through an association whose main point is the improvement of the industry! Or perhaps that's not what it's for...

9 minutes ago, htb said:

Arbmish,

 

Prob a couple more I could ask. What is the attendance costs as they are all tight aberdonians 

 

Cheers David

Ah you're a David too?

It's not cheap but I'd say it's not bad for a day course and it's cheaper if you're an AA member.

I've attached the prices for the course running in Preston in December. I'd imagine it would be the same cost.

I would remind them that it can be claimed back in their tax

This is good..Davie has a couple, I know of at least three from college if not more and two I work with, Aicchalmers is in and htb you have a couple? So what's that around ten?

Davie can you see if your boss could ask around?

I'll see if I can get any interest from anyone else I've worked with.

Htb do you know anyone else you think would be interested?

Aicchalmers reckon some of your class would be as well?

I am very determined to make this happen!

1 minute ago, Aicchalmers said:

Yes first, think I know who you might be! I think the content's good just that I'm wanting to make a good start towards ISA membership/other tickets etc and that could be supported better, but now there's only 3 in our year so ..

Well they ran the HND with only two last year so you'll be fine! 

Yeah come and look me up Monday and we'll have a chat.. don't worry if I look grumpy that's just the lack of sleep!

22 hours ago, Aicchalmers said:

I'm also studying there, again traveling each week from Glasgow though so central belt would be possible for me too. I'd be interested in getting more specific arb workshops, so count me in for that but would be interested in other ways of getting courses/cpd units etc that count for something outside of the basic hn framework, which is useful but I came into the course hoping to get a lot more out of it.

I think that it would be possible if there's enough of a 'block' that shows a clear demand to get something from the AA but also have the impression that there's no interest from them in general in Scotland, particularly the North.

Aw awesome! What year are you in? If it's first year..I can tell you it feels like that but you learn more than you would expect for sure! However I do think there could be more, especially on the practical side.

Come say hello to me this week..I'm the only girl in the HND year so kinda hard to miss!

23 hours ago, EdwardC said:

You can complain to the AA all you like but don't expect them to take any notice. All they're interested in is the south east where they can generate money. To some degree that's fine, but we all pay the same fees so can expect the same benefits. It just doesn't happen though. All the money generation is for the benefit of all the members, not just those down south.

I agree with you and that's why I'm not putting this forward as a complaint. I'm going to ask the AA to run the workshop and I'm hoping by doing this I can prove that we'll have the numbers to show them that it is worth it. Duncan is on board to do it and I think I have a location sorted as well so it's just down to funding and that comes from the AA.

If you know anyone else who would be interested please point them in this direction

oh oh heres trouble Arbmish.........   
 
 

Excellent, thanks Andy. I feel like there may be more than the AA think. Especially if we help each other out and car share from places that are further away for instance. Like I said I'm based in Aberdeenshire (I just travel to Culloden to study) so I'd happily take 4 people in my car. 

Lets see what happends.

Hello Hello

I've been working in the industry for around 3 years now and I'm in my second year of studying Arb' at Inverness Forestry College. I've been a member of the Arboriculture Association for almost two years and it seems to me that we never seem to have any training/workshops/talks etc from the AA North of the central belt. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

As a student/arborist in training I would love to attend many of the events/training that the AA put on but the nearest are in Edinburgh or similar. I'm based out of Aberdeenshire so once you include the cost of the course, travel, accommodation (depending on times) and the loss of a days work then it's just too much money. I know guys working full time who are not happy with this either. So I'm hoping some of you will help me change that...

I've been in contact with Duncan Slater about giving his Tree Fork Assessment workshop at the Scottish School of Forestry in Culloden. He is willing to do so but his funding comes from the AA. He has passed me the contact details of the relevant person at the AA so I can request that they put on the workshop. I feel the request will be better received if I already have evidence of a wider interest for the workshop to go ahead.

Here's a link to an article about Duncans' work: https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Branch-News/Assessment-of-Tree-Fork-Workshops-announced

One of the guys I work for has been to the workshop and highly recommended it to me, which makes me feel it is worth the effort.

If any of you are interested can you comment below so that I can gauge how much support there is for this to go ahead.

I feel once we've had a successful workshop we may be able to open the gates for more! I'd love to hear your thoughts either way.

Cheers in advance

Amy

Hello,

I'm a self employed groundie with two years part time experience looking for work in the North East of Scotland. I'm based in the Aberdeenshire area but would be willing to travel for the right job.

I've just finished my HNC in Arboriculture and Urban Forestry so I am available full time for the next few months and part time thereafter.

I have:

HNC in horticulture

Full Clean Drivers licence and own transport (with ten years driving experience).

Tickets

• 201 Carry out maintenance of chainsaw and cutting system
  
• 202 Cross-cut timber using a chainsaw
  
• 203 Fell and process trees up to 380mm
  
• CS38 Climb Trees and Perform Arial Rescue
  
• Woodchipper
  

I am looking to do more tickets when the funds become available.

I am used to working on the ground for climbers and MEWPs. I have experience using a tracked chipper, hedge cutting, snedding, crosscutting - mostly small to medium trees, stump grinding, log splitting and some traffic management.

I have all my own PPE but no tools at present.

If interested please contact me here, or on:07743191943

Cheers

Amy