horselogger

He did say it was already CE compliant but I am however a little sceptical on that. There is no obvious labelling to that effect and no mention of certificate of conformity anywhere as well as obvious issues with the safety systems etc. You might be better placed to make that call than me. For the sake of some pretty simple re-engineering to be able to open up your market significantly in Europe I think it would be worth it. They can do much of the approval process themselves and dont necessarily have to use one of the agencies. PTO kit takes a hammering in forests and even at a couple of grand more it could be a useful 'expendable' contracting machine if they sorted it out. Of course they could just use the good old CE(China Export) mark as opposed the European C E (This is safe) one!

I spoke to the chap at Woodland Mills today with a few questions about their chippers as we have been looking for a reasonably priced PTO job for a while. I asked about HSE compliant safety labelling etc and the position of the control/emergency stop bar and its operation as emergency stop etc He was really nice and helpful but It seems it meets none of the criteria. Would not take lot to sort out really and I wonder how much custom they have lost by not doing so. Looking now at the Rock machinery Venom RX177 as an option. Has anyone got/used one? Be interested to know what you think.

You are correct in your thoughts.. However - they have already thought of that. You are OK for refresher training as long as your course is booked by 1st Oct - you might not actually do until next year though!! Many out there will already have had refreshers under the old schemes - I know a lot that have done it over the last year or so. Also anyone who has effectively up-skilled or done any courses in the last five years is OK for the time being. My main issue is their line that not all chainsaw trainers are able to deliver refresher training to those in the industry therefore they are able to personally select those they feel are " up to it". What does that say about their view of the several hundred people out there who do this for a living? I also suspect those that do not feel able to do it will probably know and accept their limitations and if they don't the word soon gets round - this is a small industry. There are currently 8 people out there who have monopolised this training and you dont get into their club unless you are invited - irrespective of skill level, ability credibility or whatever. That is why this is corrupt. You wont get a contract unless you are a aid up member of FISA - irrespective of your track record and approach to safety. You cant cut on a site unless you are a paid up certified operator by them (who are totally unregulated). I may be missing something but how will my paying to join FISA make me and my crew safer workers than we already are - exactly what part of access to their website or reading all the rest of the stuff is going to achieve that? Oh - I know - they can tell you what courses you can do and pay for! I apologise for sounding cynical and negative about all this but it really is ridiculous that these self appointed emperors of forestry have been allowed to do this and also sad that those involved in it it, whilst undoubtedly experts in their field, have lacked the moral fibre to tell the organisers where to go for the sake of a quick few quid. They had an opportunity to do something good and instead have seccumbed to greed and self interest. As ambasadors for the industry they have been part of, supported and promoted they should hang their heads in shame.

You are right - this was the response to an HSE directive to sort it out in-house or the HSE would do it for us. I am sure however, that the HSE never intended that those trusted with setting it all up should have the neck to create a self-serving monopoly run by themselves to act for their own financial gain! Perhaps we should have let the HSE do it!!! By the way did I also mention that their plan is that ALL chainsaw courses from 1st Oct (including first-time certifications) must be taught by a 'FISA Approved' trainer or you don't get the job! If there are any LANTRA/NPTC trainers or assessors out there you really ought to be finding out what these organisations are doing about this as it is completely undermining everything they stand for and creating a monopoly that you can only join by 'being proposed' by an existing trainer (Irrespective of your personal views on these organisations they are the properly regulated industry training and certification lead bodies!) FISA have immediately homed in on a money making scam - if you look at injury stats for forestry, actually how many were down to improper use of chainsaws by an operator who holds the correct competencies for what they were doing - not many. Most involve falling wood.trees or machinery (usually during maintenance by unqualified people). What will save more lives - proper supervision. Having crew supervisors helping and mentoring the less experienced instead of demanding higher productivity. Also clients taking a bit of responsibility for what is going on on their land. When was the last time anyone from the Council, FC or whoever came along to a site and actually challenged the site manager to prove the people on site are actually those they submitted 'qualification details' at the tender process for and asked individual cutters for their NPTC cards or asked to see the written emergency procedures and made sure people knew them? Why can't the client walk the site and look at the standard of cutters - if they have any concerns then they can do something about it. That will improve safety better than any retraining. A carte-blanche to proclaim yourselves as the only ones entitled to make money or else deny honest people work is nothing short of criminal

FISA is a wolf in sheep's clothing. In theory the idea of its existence is a good thing. The reality of its existence is very different. Chainsaw refresher training is a recommendation and not mandatory in law - it is probably good practice though. Also given the nature of the equipment and work we do with it, for those who are properly trained and qualified, accidents are thankfully very rare - they usually happen to unskilled and untrained operators who appear on the stats as 'self-employed'. What is alarming though is that no one can see what is happening here. FISA is a body of self-appointed, self interested individuals who have been allowed to hi-jack the industry and we have all let it happen. From October - if you want to have a FC contract you need FISA update training provided by a FISA trainer. To be a FISA trainer you have to be 'proposed' by an existing FISA trainer as apparently all the rest the chainsaw trainers out there who deliver chainsaw training under the auspices of LANTRA or the NPTC are clearly not good enough to do it and regulated, approved courses run by the awarding organisations are not good enough either. That this band can dictate who can and cannot deliver training which ultimately affects the grant of government contracts is not only unbelievable but also probably illegal (transparency, fairness and all that!) That they are being allowed to get away with this is unbelievable - the NPTC and LANTRA, irrespective of your views on them, are regulated training bodies controlled by OFQUAL. FISA are a group of unregulated, self-appointed money grabbers who have seen an opportunity to fleece the rest of the industry and hold it to ransom - hiding under the shield of 'safety'. by creating their own 'special' little courses you have to pay for if you want to work in the industry. The only member of FISA who spoke up was unceremoniously sacked for his actions. FISA as an organisation is clearly not fit for purpose. Those who hold office in FISA and who are party to these restrictive and probably illegal practices are not fit to hold office and certainly not fit to represent the 'safety concerns' of the industry as they are clearly acting to their own ends. If you pay for a FISA course you are paying to line the pockets of people delivering unregulated training to suit their own ends. If the industry standard courses are not adequate then they can and should be changed - I do believe they are adequate as they have been evolved over years. Everyone in the industry needs to open their eyes to this and soon - or we will all be paying the price - literally and you can all say goodbye to FC work as a subby or otherwise unless you pay FISA dearly for the privilege. At the end of the day - who are they to be dictating who does and does not get government contracts! Here endeth my rant - but mark my words!