Coximus

When everyone moans about cost and prices being too low - does anyone ever consider that for alot of people firewood is already the most expensive way to heat their house and thus a luxury compared to oil or gas?

Its a fuel commodity - and its got to compete with other fuels - currently if I buy in (which I dont as I have woodland) the wood is 2.4x the price per BTU of coal, and several x oil.

That will always restrict the market to those with little choice, or disposable income.

When fuel prices rise again, then perhaps wood will shift in more volume again.

Alot of it is coming from state owned forests, and I know speaking to a local merchant who buys it (hes polish himself) that in the 1990's after socialism fell flat, the Govts auctioned off permits to fell forest blocks, most of these ran for 20-25 years, they were sold to raise cash quickly as their economies tanked, Initially alot of forests were simply scoured for good hardwood logs to sell to france (Oak) and Scandinavia (deal/Pine), the low wages (in the 90's 1/8th or less than UK at the time) meaning they were competitive.

The Birch and aspen stands were just left as they had no value - but they're on the block permits and licences, so are now being hoovered up before the licences expire> Not necessarily true of the whole situation, but certainly of large areas.

As birch coppices well, they get away on the EU sustainability rules, as their is rapid and quick grow back, which in some areas is already 5-10cm dia and getting harvested as chip for BIOmass plants.

As these areas start to produce mostly smallwood for chip, the volumes will probably drop back abit in the medium term. And apparently getting licences for new areas is competitive so some people are pulling out.

Like any artificial market rush.

Im in the process of doing something semi simlar on 15-20 acres - steep south facing pasture, of which half is too bumpy for machines... Planing apples and sweet chestnuts at 20m spacings, in 50m rows accross the land to create grassland thats still productive but with a good shade and timber layer to diversify - sheep will eat the windfall apples to boot, and any I want can be picked.

Also thrown in a few italian alders for Nitrogen, some E.Nitens for firewood in 5 years and some willow for the same.

The woods on a block of land I rent were line cleared 2 years back - The deal was all large oak and ash was left on the deck for the LL and myself to sort for saw logs, everything else cut to easy to handle sizes and stacked as close to gates as possible - mostly firewood stuff, brash was chipped into a big pile and used for tracks.

The stuff was left stacked to season for nearly a year and was intended for firewood and lots of the oak was perfect for fence posts, and about 130 tonnes was sold to a dairy farm with a biomass boiler - everyone wins all round........

Over half was stolen by dog walkers, white range rovers and surprisingly well equipped jodhpur wearing folk.

Just because its road side doesnt mean its free! you deserve all your tools confiscating if you dont contact the land owner first!

Tin Hat on...........

Im currious about peoples set ups and what they find is the problem?

I own a small woodland as part of some of my fields, the trees are no use to my sheep so I sold them standing to a chap selling firewood - He paid me 20/cube standing, approx, mostly sycamore coppice originally planted for pit props, cut himself and dragged in bundles with a kubota. and he sells bulk bags (1/2cube) for 45 and makes a good living, and gets 3.5-4 bags from each cube standing, he recons he averages process and deliver 30 bags in a normal week, but in peak time sells close on 45.

Now to me, thats a good set up - he has no shortage of farms with small woodlands to raid - plenty of coppice about, and he just uses a saw horse and chainsaw, bucket, defender 110 and tipping trailer.

So - if he is making a profit, why are people struggling against him?

Whats wrong with his business plan? Hes most likely making more than national average sallary (Which is no mean feat for anyone in any self employed trade), and appears to lead a comfortable life;

So, are others perhaps over-invested? Tied into overheads? Or is he just lucky?

I see a fair few like that round leeds - All the ones on heavy clay soils seem to drop leaves, the ones on sandy and lighter soils dont seem to.

Would need to know how much it would cost for something like a shipping container full delivered to the UK - exchange rates have moved alot recently since brexit so worth working out if its worth it.

Stumprr

It burns fine if you put a small shovel full round the edges now and then but leave the fire as "normal" in the middle, abit slow to go but it burns none the less and gives plenty of embers, just make sure you dont cover the largers burning logs completely and have good airflow. Burns abit like coal so needs some bottom air, not much, but just enough, as otherwise the top layer burns with the top air, but the ash settles and covers the rest of the chip, so it doesnt burn.

Can happily add about 1 6inch x 4 in shovel every hour without impacting performance - Free fuel, cant complain.

I could arrange for a tip site in North Leeds near LS22 but it is a bit far north of rothwell, what sort of volume you looking at?

Very fair - I've been offered 40 a ton for standing sycamore coppice (6 inch dia stuff) - the guy would come and fell it and take it and pay up.

50 for already felled hardwood is a bargain atm.

bout 3-4 miles south of harrogate on the valley opposite harewood. Simple case of tipping on track, tractor will spread about.

Hey,

noticed people asking for tip chip sites alot recently - anyone in this area needing to be rid of some, happy to take - gets used in boggy field entrances in winter so happy to take - I use all I produce so always happy to take more.

Ta

Dave C

will be interesting - but when the amount of money involved starts to bash around I can imagine most people folding, or the rules been broken just to get it through!

bang on - I know two farmers who have planning permission on their land, who do not want to sell and the council is making moves to compulsory purchase their land and sell to a big developer - recently heard about another case (ish) from the farmer themselves - and a 3 acre field I own is due to get an application for 23 houses on in north leeds - I dont want it but a big perhouse company wants to have it... They can compulsory purchase against my will if its deemed for the public good.... easy - whack a playground on it.

Leeds environ health are really good on this - from personal experience they will get involved as long as youve already asked them to remove it - and you say they denied it... so off you go!

Ive had a couch in my field entrance before and it had 5 business cards for a design company from North leeds (allwoodley) the couch went back whence it came...

Have sent PM - Can collect if access is good can bring tract's down and move foc.

Otherwise will take what can be loaded into trailers depending on road.

The whole Woofing thing sounds horribly like exploitation to me... landowner wants work doing for free - "volunteers" do the work voluntarially, land owner takes the gains....

Quick conflab (informal and non binding) with solicitor friend, exact words "A court case would put paid to that, in short order too, unless the land owner allows full public access and is a reg charity its hard to see how it could get away without NWM, furthermore if the land owner derives any financial gain from it it wouldnt stand up at all."

"think, how would people and the law look on if you asked for volunteers to plough your fields, harvest your crops and drive your van for a small allowance.... youd be draged to hell and back"

This sort of thing exploits the well meaning UNLESS its a charity and not a private farm and private nature reserve. If its public I appologise, if its private, how is it fair you as a land owner get people to work for free to your gain?

Im leeds based and have previously sold 0.5 Cube bags (standard builders ones) for £45 - to get rid of it as its a waste product to me.... I dont do it for anyone but my regular maint customers as its intermitent for me. - Based ojn your price for the Leeds area Id say you could easily do the IBC for £80-90 and still be very competitive if not too cheap.

As all others have said.... its far too mild to have many sales at the moment, as soon as it gets cold sales will shoot - My stoves only on intermitently at the moment.... In cold weather it runs 24/7 - your own stove use is a good guide to everyone elses!

The calorific value of most softwoods / kg is higher than most hardwoods....

The density is lower as others have said.....

The lower density means more pore and air space, = Larger surface are,

Therefore the wood will burn faster, and thus release more energy in a given time space, so would burn hotter aswell.

Overall softwood 90% for me, by burning hotter, a ) Im warm, b) cleaner chimney!

annual sweep gets about half a pint of crap, sweep recons i barely use the chimney....... its onl straight from Oct - March each year.

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/FC-BEC-InfoSheet-Wood-as-Fuel-TechSupp.pdf/$FILE/FC-BEC-InfoSheet-Wood-as-Fuel-TechSupp.pdf

A bell stops most bird kills as they simply cant be stealthy enough with one to get the bird!

Nothing stops the rat, mice and anything ground based killing though - if it cant fly or the cat does not have to climb (sets bell off) to get it, then my cat just relies on pure speed and can out chase pretty much any ground based life even the fox got a good seeing to.

Simple solution I've found - Keep the cat in side as much as possible - if she gets out she brings back mice, many many mice, but with bells on she never gets a bird, take the bells off and we have starlings and pigeons within the hour.

Your MP cant and probabbly wont do anything if the planning dept are following the letter of the law and have a policy in place in lime with the law which they are following...

If not, they will happily wade in and point out the LA's messing about. - For example councils opposing CAT A exemption agri development or a farmer building a house to live near his stock.... The law is clear this is allowed without pp - MPs letters get the LA to back off -- In this case its abit more grey as the council is not breaking any regs, or nessasarily enforcing one either, just refusing which is their right, based on some assumptions they are making. Id say this is a good case to get an MP involved... they may just tip the balence.

Otherwise your stuffed, as the LA can refuse fairly on those grounds as it is not against the law to do so.

Is this the big copper beach near the railway line in Wetherby?

its only poisonous if the kids eat the leaves.....

A sheep will die if it injests more than a mouthful - had to deal with dead lambs which ate fly-tipped hedge clippings a few years back.

As for growth rates - a 400 y old yew can be very small indeed, and not much bigger than a standard detached house - so the yew could easily pre-date any house. They live for 1500+ years with ease, and grow very slow.

Id get a local Arb opinion on the tree and ask the council if its a tpo.

ALSO your house is old, you may be in a conservation area, so you will need to notify the council of the work in advance as well.

I Find nitens burns better than Gunni - Gunni spits a hell of a lot and tends to sulk and not produce as much flame - Nitens burns with nice flame and is as long lasting as Oak/Ash... Just split it fresh as even the plantaiton stuff I had has spiral grain - dry that stuff will not split for love nor money with out a splitter.