bats-n-trees

c'mon .You got to have a porpoise in life surely ???

Don't ever worry about spelling.Far better to make a post from the heart about something you feel passionate/strongly about.We readers will forgive any spelling errors if you keep us spellbound with your thread. For without knowledge we are nothing.

Don,t make a meal of it !!!!

I guess we for ? um a Queue ?

Hi monkey. Nice train of thought but......... The vast majority of bats living successfully in urban environments have man to thank for for their roost sites.Most urban pips will be living under some unsuspecting persons roof.My own son lives in Sutton in Surrey but has never seen a bat in his life.When I go down and sit outside his house at dusk there are loads flying around. Just as an example I have uploaded a couple of pics taken when I was on a training course for bats in St Fagans in Cardiff. The round house was a building originally used for cockfighting. Today it is part of the museum ( well worth a visit for good trees etc.) but now it is a feeding roost for long eared bats. They catch moths on the wing and then hang up in here to consume them. First job ,bite off the wings... so moth wings on the floor as evidence and knobbly poo- a long eared trait-must be painful !!! The other shots show soprano pip droppings piling up under an access point for them above. This roost is situated in the corner of the roof structure of the main building which houses offices and the cafeteria etc. If you want to see the evidence then walk to the far end of the building from the cafe,go up the slope and you will recognise the downpipe in my shot.You can see the urine staining on the wall below their entry point.This is home for close to 200 bats at the last count, and believe it or not some of them crawl along inside the soffit for some 30/40 m.We know this because there is a diminishing line of bat droppings on the ground below. Bats have also colonized the recently new 'green building' just some few yards away. Unlike us, bats are not stupid and will quickly utilize whatever structure they perceive to be of use to them. Cheers.

Hi Nimby. thanks for the post.Daubentons will use a variety of roosts site. Bridges over your river for instance .They will get into the crevices in the stonework for example.But they do love tree roosts .Vertical splits/lightening damage, holes-they will use them all.And they will roost quite some distance from water.Presumably you see them at dusk skimming a few inches above the surface of the water ? Other bats ( pips/myotis ) will also hunt over water. The daubentons are unique in that they stay the same distance above the water when turning to fly back down the stretch of water.Other species gain altitude ( a bit like planes turning to machine gun whatever is on the ground) before and during the turns at the end of the run. You can see this quite easily with a high powered torch.But please only do it for short bursts as bats have sensitive eyes ! ( Imagine our boys in the bombers being blinded by searchlight beams and you should get the idea). Haven't fished for a long time but seem to remember long -trotting for barbel. How do you fish for them these days ?

Hell no !! I will stick to bats.But I do love the beauty that nature gives us to look at every working day.Did you get the other pics I sent t a few nights ago ?

I've never tried to cut up a timber wolf but is looks a bit small to me? .......I don't want any replies containing cutting remarks.-I'm on a knife edge already. But I would love to clasp that knife !!

Hi Hama.will reply to the bats bits later.But in the mean time here are some shots for you to salivate over !! or not ?? Sorry don't know how to rotate pics on here

If you want camera footage then a lot of the latest video cameras will record bat in klow light conditions.I also use Infra red home security cameras which are very cheap now in comparison ( Maplins etc) They can be set to motion sensor record so you don't have to spend hours watching nothing !!

Hi David, The material I suggested was a length of insulating fleece for plants.Loosely rolled and fixed horizontally a couple of feet under the bat box it should trap a collection of 'arrisings' (bat poo to me ) if the box is being used. Bats have a very fast digestive system to reduce all up flying weight so if anything goes in the front end it will come out the back end within about 40 minutes.so there should always be poo.If a tree is being suspected of having bats within it it is always useful to look on the bark and around the base of the tree.The size and shape of these vary between bat species,so are an indicator of what may be using the tree/bat box etc.If bat poo is rolled between the fingers it should easily crumble into tiny fragments of wing etc. If it is hard then it will be the droppings of some other mammal such as mouse,vole etc. RE.Moccas Park. I will bring what I can. Must go to earn. Wish I could get paid for this it is very enjoyable !!

For those of you following the ecology threads you will note that Hama has mentioned the work by Andrew Cowan : Guidance Note1:Bats in the context of tree work operations.Very valuable info included.It has just been updated with a third edition (March 2011) which the AA tells me they are taking orders for and will be dispatched 2/3 weeks time. I have attached a short bit about it taken off the AA website, along with details of one of their other publications: Protected Species and Arboriculture. I have also added a list of tree/bat days that are taking place this year around the country.These are organised by the BCT (Bat Conservation Trust ).More details on their website. Happy Hunting ! bct_training_brochure_2011.pdf scan of protected species.docx scan of note one.docx

Hi Rob, I knew there was a danger that if I continued to spout off someone would pop up with a loaded question !! It is getting late for an old git like me and the wine has nearly run out so I will give a partial answer for now and come back in more depth tomorrow. Suggestions.Track down your local bat group and join them.Don't be put off, persevere. You will find within any bat club there is a wealth of knowledge and experience.You arb skills may well be of interest and use to them-They are all potential clients.Some might be commercial like me and need climbers to do tree surveys. Just google bats. That will keep you busy for years !! And now for the difficult one . The ivy question. Bats do use ivy to give them shelter so it can be a roost. But all bats have more than one roost site and move between them on a regular basis.Bats can abandon a roost for no apparent reason and suddenly years later re-occupy.As you rightly say they are baffling creatures.I habitually stare up into trees and see potential bat roost sites in about 80% of the trees I look at.On that basis we could easily be terrified to fell or substantially reduce anything. The conclusion will have to be in part two I'm afraid !! Tomorrow night -if time allows. Cheers.

Hi David, Excuse my ignorance but what is SSRA. Is this to do with safety ? Could I perhaps ask through the forum if anyone has photos of bats or bat roosts in trees or other related material.It would be great to have sight of this because I think there is a need for a small notebook for bat advice/Pics etc for arbs/tree surgeons etc.I have yet to come across anything that is much use in the field.Perhaps someone will prove me wrong ! Alan.

flattery will get you a long way my boy !!

anyone can open bat boxes, just so long as there is a suitably licensed person present at the time.Usually done by bat clubs to an agreed schedule. But thanks for pointing out that it is a serious issue !!.Still a novice on the forum you see !!!

Hi Hama, Have checked the files bu haven't got a better shot of the fungi on the vet ash. I will take some when I go up there next-it isn't that far from Moccas Park !.It stands on the top of a hill overlooking Leintwardine on the site of an ancient roman fort.I have got some other fungi shots for you .Where would you like them sent over the next few days ? All the best, Alan.

Hi David, The rectangular bat box in your photo is made by the German company Schwegler who make the Roll Royce of bat boxes.They have sold over a million bat boxes around the world to date. Yours is a bat box 1FF and they are around £50/60 a throw, so somebody had plenty of money. They are ideal for pips/noctules etc.The front lid folds down for inspection and they can hold many bats at one time.They can be checked for bats without opening though.Stand underneath with a high powered torch and look up inside.You will quickly see if it is occupied.The biggest danger in bat box inspections off a ladder is not being ready for the unexpected.Mice of all sorts will use them and usually take a flying leap in your direction as the lid is removed!!.Other dangers are wasps-and even more dangerous are big hornets, which I seem to see much more of these days. Looking into the eyes of a hornet from a few inches away while at the top of a ladder is quite an unnerving experience!!.Always take time opening them up as bats can be roosting on the inside of the lids.Also when closing boxes if there are bats inside take care not to trap wings, toes etc.

Hi Andy, As part of my bat studies and other projects I became interested in thermal imaging cameras etc. I have some footage of bats taken on Flir cameras.I know Andrew Cowan was heavily into this and thermal imaging of trees ,as was Marcus Bellet Travers I am sure there were photos in Forestry Journal some time back showing a thermal image of a heavily ivyed tree . It clearly showed the level of decay in the host trunk that would otherwise not have been picked up. Slightly off thread but possibly of interest.Expensive process though-although the cameras have come down a lot recently.

High Stevie, sorry been busy trying to earn. Bats down here will be out and about soon.We start commercial surveys for bats any time after April.We need a temperature of 10 degrees plus during the survey period (one hour before dusk for roughly two hours ).Where you are will be later because of latitude etc.You will have less species up there because of the weather.Your bats will probably be pipistrelles,they can get through a hole the size of the end of your little finger ,although the have quite big wings so look much bigger in flight.Often you can see them flying around in pairs in close formation. They eat between 2/3000 insects each per night ,which keeps our midge situation under control!! I should add that you can see bats about at any time of the year. Lots don't hibernate in the true sense of the word but go into torpor.They reduce their heart rate down to about six beats a minute over a period of about an hour so that their calorific requirements are minimal.As mammals they have to take in fluids every few days so will reverse the process and fly out for water and food.How they know when the temperature has risen and there is fly life around is still a mystery. Anyway I expect you are losing the will to live by now so I will stop.If you want more info just continue the thread.

Congratulations, So the hard Frosts will continue for a long time yet then!

Hi Paul, I am a member of both Worcester Bat Group and HAM (Hereford action for mammals )our county equivalent. As a matter of interest can you remember who you spoke to ? 'Over the Hill' Edwards.

I always understood it was a guy called Babbage that invented that !! Enjoy HH. Cold here in the boondocks.

Hi Monkey, As I habitually takes photos of fungi as examples of natures works of art I am sure I will have one on the file.I will delve into the Edwards archives tonight and try and upload some.Broadband speed here is getting down to 1meg/s lots of the time now. Good old BT if only they were that slow at sending their invoice !! Incidentally the ash tree with the fungi on is much more impressive size wise when you underneath it.The walking stick I borrowed just to get a sense of scale. I didn't have my dbh tape with me at the time. What age do you estimate it is ? The tree- not the walking stick.!! Thanks for mentioning humour in relation to me.-Made my day !! I see you are still in the office.Not safe to go onto Hampstead Heath yet then ? !!!!! Veteran Edwards.

Hi Steve, thanks for the info,at least I am in second place at the moment !! As a matter of interest how old do you think your ivy is and are there any ways of gauging the age in general terms. Yes I know initially someone will say it surely can't be older than the host tree it is on so age that and that is your answer. But I don't think it is as simple as that in some cases.Was there a previous host for example ? Also does any one use ivy wood for anything other than burning,-furniture,carving, turnery perhaps ? Saw my first skylark of the season yesterday.Surely sunshine will soon be warming our backs. All the best. Batman.