Grais

Well from all that I, I learned you guys like to argue and crow about how much you all know about saws a whole lot.

Not much actual information being shared but a lot of talk about big saws and ported saws and bla bla bla.

Heres a tip buy the 365, and a 24" bar and have fun with it.

Or screw the 365 alltoghether save the money and use the 346 you have, itll buck 2-3' diameter logs without even missing a beat. I run 353 with 20" bars and buck huge wood everyday with them.

You guys can back your big saws around and Ill laugh at you as I pack my small and light saw around and cut just as fast as you.

Saw that ending coming a mile off....lol.

Or maybe I read this in Readers Digest last time I was at the Docs ?

Grais

The Throwpod is not just a chunk of heavy rubber! Sorry - wanted the product to speak for itself and not have to continually defend it - but we need to clarify that there is more to it than meets the eye (excuse the pun)!

Tony and Di

(Sawpod Ltd)

My apologies Tony, didnt mean to make it seem less than it is.

Is it not made out of rubber ? I could have swore that was what I read ?

My point was simply the uni barrel is a machined piece of aluminum, and the price is comparable to a molded mass produced throwweight, granted a little overpriced IMO, but still a very cool throwweight.

Didnt mean any derision,it was simply a comparison of two similarily priced items.

Not sure if they still sell it but Petzl used to sell a RADS system using a GriGri, a pulley and a hand ascender exactly like DrSteeves setup just swap the ID for the GriGri.

I see nothing wrong with it if it works for you Doc.

Our natural inclination, mine as well as anyone else, is to stuff everyone into the same box we are most comfortable in, the HitchClimber and a good VT or like hitch is a great system, no doubt. But it is not the be all, end all of tree climbing.

There are many ways to work a tree.

Some better than others, some good for some but not for other, etc etc...

The sheer variety has always been one of the attractions of the job for me.

I think its commendable that you persevered and found a system that works for your needs in the trees.

Stay safe bud.

Congrats on healthy baby boy.

Enjoy the kids AS MUCH AS YOU CAN when they are wee, they grow up so fast, and then its gone.

Much love to the family.

PS: and I do mean take days off when you have too, money will always be there to be made, within reason, but memories with little guys, you gotta work at that stuff so you have some good ones(memories and kids) when they grow up.

Yates SCREAMERS

Basicaly the 'Screamer' is a shock absorber.

30.00 to 40.00 an hour. Or more if the climber is worth it and knows it. IIRC the starting rate for a CUA with a 'unionised' shop is 32.50.

People actually climbing trees for 8.82....I realise this is probably pounds, but 16.00 is what groundman start at here in Canada.

That is right sad I wouldnt tie my boots up for that, period.

Getting back to the original pic, why put friction the one place it cannot be easily adjusted? either the climber can lower with a stub or the groundy with whatever.

If it's too light it'll get hung up. And pulling the rope back through would be a PITA.

Just use a krab and keep it simple.

Why not just unclip the 8 and pop the rope off ?

You really dont need to pull it all the way through.

Isnt it around 80 USD for the Throwpod ?

A chunk of heavy rubber and eye bolt ?

80 USD for the amount of machining that must take place seems like a fair deal to me.

Awesome T, thanks.

well there is here in the UK:001_tt2:

Its illegal to climb a tree by yourself in the UK ?

Theres an actual law on the books that states that nobody may climb a tree solo ?

That is a hoot:001_tongue:.

Continued use of the ZIGZAG poses a risk of serious injury or death.

Ouch...that gotta hurt for some eh ? Doesnt leave much to the imagination.

Petzl really screwed the pooch on this one.

One thing I do not understand, why all the love for Petzl, what have they ever done for you ?

They made a piece of kit that could have, or will, kill someone !

I like their Carabiners too, I even climb in one of their saddles, but as far as this is concerned they have taken a severe fall in my eyes, and they should be made to pay for it in some way, or what do they learn ?

That Arborists have little value for their own lives, and will use any bit of kit that is shiny and new ?

I really hope not, people who climbed on these should be indignant, I would be.

All this oh everyone makes a mistake, we are only human peace joy and love is a load of BS.

Petzl deserves your anger.

How many wraps of your prussik are you lot using on your side strop?

4 to 6 depending on the weather. If its a wet slippery day Ill use 6, in a classic prussic.

But this really depends on the rope you are using as a base for your lanyard.

I like three strand ProMaster or similar, and when wet I find the extra wraps help with gripping, and with not binding ?

Some ropes are not really affected as much by being wet.

To be totally honest it really varies from day to day, week to week, I play around with different knots sometimes, and sometimes Ill leave it the same for a while.

The ZZ is able to decend very fast, with an abrupt stop over a long distance could it get to 4kn??

Yes.

..

I think Jonesie is in an unenviable position. ....

I do not doubt that for one second, I would hate to be a retailer/distributor and dealing with this right now.

Throwpod looks great and I had to chuckle at the 'aerodynamic shape gains your throws height'. Im just a very amateur aircraft designer, make that model, models that fly, but the actual reynolds numbers(very roughly...numbers used to how well a objects will flow through space, they are very complicated) at that size shape and speed are so freaking huge as to make the benifits from say a throwpod to a throwbag, almost exactly the same shape and size, really quite negligible.

Now if you were to compare a throwpod to a volleyball...the throwpos will gain a height advantage due to its superior shape, and concentrated mass.

Dont get me wrong, I like the Throwpod and would probably buy one ?

Its shape is the absolute bomb when it comes to snaking through the tree, that and how tuff it is, its enviromental sustainability(no more lead) if you will, are the only real selling points I think the Throwpod needs.

One thing I gotta say....lol... I really think 40lbs(????) is a bit steep, If I had to pay over 80.00 Canadian(just relised how much it would cost!!), I would seriously consider the Rope Armour system, I mean its piece of rubber and a bolt.

Anyhow guess I said my bit, best of luck with it.

Stay safe.

Sorry but I dont call cross loading a carabiner and suddenly stopping using it the wrong way.

I call that regular working enviroment.

They failed to test for that eventuality.

They made a mistake.

There was no USE THIS WITH CAUTION take care to NEVER CROSS LOAD A CARABINER in this particlaur configuaration, with a little picture explaining the warning of course, now if there was such a warning, and a person did that, that would be using it incorrectly. They would have failed to follow instructions, failed to follow a warning.

How did this climber fail to use the ZigZag as instructed. I looked over the original PDF and failed to see any specific warning about cross loading.

Perhaps I missed it ? Wouldnt be the first time, apologies if I did.

I know cross loading is never advisable, but our carabiners are as strong as they are, for a reason, so that if they do get cross loaded we are still safe.

Bottom line.

Yes our system may be screwed up, and we may be hanging half upside down, but a vital PPE connection did not fail because we have the safeguard built in.

I know Jonsie is probably just repeating what Petzl has stated, but that is lawyer speak, the reality is reality.

I cannot speak for the rest of you guys and gals, but when I climb trees, when I risk my life, I like to deal in absolutes.

Something works and will continue to work, or it doesnt, no half measures at 60 ft.

That's a good document, as is all the stuff I've seen from them.

The only real flaw I guess is that it precedes the SRT work positioning systems which are taking off - RW, HH & Uni principally - so all the set ups are a bit 'IRATA'....

I picked the bits I liked from some of the systems covered in it, modified them, and put my wrench based kit together. Was a useful starting point.

True all that, the info is a good starting point.

A reference if you will to what has preceded some of the more popular systems being refined now.

Myself I am still searching, learning, taking it all in. Have been aware of SRT for some time, but just never have/had the need for it, chances are if I am climbing a tree, it is a removal.

Still I want to bring some refinement to the set of skills I already have(as vast, and refined as they already are.....lol:001_tt2:), so I have to take the big plunge and start exploring the trees using rope access.

Guaranteed to be a journey but I look forward to it. Juaat woirking on getting soem proper SRT kit. Jut needing a couple of ascenders, hand and a basic or the like I think to start. If anyone has any decent/used but cared for gear they think could use a new home shoot me a PM,I got lots of space... maybe we can work out a deal ?

Stay safe up there.

No one will lose their job. It is a brand new product that was only released in Feb. There is always problems with a new product no matter how much R&D is done.

Umm someone should lose their job, not really trying to be argumentative, and maybe that seems a bit dramatic, but this is a company that has built a reputation on high angle PPE. No ?

Someone falling free fall from 5m is more than a 'problem' it is a life ending, and most likely product destroying 'problem'.

It not a design niggle to be worked out in the first coupole of iteration released to the public.... this was a MAJOR design oversite that very well could have led, or will lead to someones death.

Not everyone reads forums, some people just buy things and use them, and when they see the name Petzl, they trust it with their lives.

That is kind of scary, because someone somewhere, is still using the ZigZag, an trusting it implicitly.

I only hope they dont cross load a carabiner the wrong way while at great height.

If someone head doesnt at least 'roll' in the figurative sense, such as taking corrective actions to insure such a mistake never happens again, then they take a pretty lax attitude to releasing PPE equipment with major design issues. For the amount of business Petzl does I dont see it, I think, I hope they take this stuff dead serious, and someone in an office at Petzl HQ is probably pretty pissed. I do not relish the idea of some working stiff losing his livlihood over something like this, but if that is the enviroment you work in, best not too make many mistakes.

Could quite easily make rated tethers out of 6mm globe folded 4 ways and machine stitched and heat shrinked for the HC pulley. They could do 8mm ocean polyester for the pinto. Job done. Just needs a company with a stitching machine to jump on it!

 

Oh and the rope runner looks awesome Kevin! Would love to have a go on one mate, I love shiny new things

Didnt Kevin mention that Sherrill is working on their own RopeWrench tether ?

Apparently the RW is not in the recent Sherril, something about Sherril wanting to be able to offer a proper RopeWrench specific tether ready for system.

I like thei dea of a 'package', a'la the HitchHiker, that Softbank is proposing, and understand where he is coming from in that regards.

Things need to be codified, accept it, we live in a litigious type of world.

Also in order for corporate to get behind anything, they have to be able to market it, and IMHO it seems like it would be easier to market a system, as opposed to a single piece of gear for a system.

It would also take a lot of the confusion for SRT Newbs if the RW was offered in a 'certified', or even just an 'official kit' with specific tether, pulley, and connections etc, etc... Perhaps a series of lengths available for hitch and tether cords to be more accomadating to differing styles and sizes for climbers ?

Would go a long way to simplify the first tentative steps into SRT, no ? Just thinking out loud here basically, so take with pinch of salt please.

As for SRT being stuck in a rut ??

Dont see that, but Im a newb myself, not looking at it from a vets perspective ?

But too me it looks like development of new gear is booming and systems are being refined and streamlined more and more.

Very interesting stuff.

One doesnt always get the chance to see new products as they go through R&D and into manufacture and production. Arborists seem to be a pretty creative bunch and we have been lucky to experience this severral times over.

great stuff on the RopeRunner Kevin, look forward to seeing the production version when it hits the market.

Stay safe all have a great week.

Hey thanks for that bud, gooid info.

One thiing about swivels we are using, I dont think they are made to do what we want them to do which is help keep essentially two lines from becoming tangled. They are designed to prevent one rope, or system, from tangling the other system, or more precisely, reduce twisting from one system to the other, most prevalent in hauling systems, or rescue scenarios I would imagine ?

But hey if they help you do your job, more power to the little suckers. I guess I thought it would be more pronounced the difference, and I just didnt really find it much different from not having one. The Sequoia is a pretty free moving saddle, perhaps a different saddle, or even just working in different trees would make the swivel more prominent.

as already stated....

ob·sta·cle

/ˈäbstəkəl/

Noun

A thing that blocks one's way or prevents or hinders progress.

Synonyms

impediment - hindrance - obstruction - barrier - hurdle

Never refered to them, obstacles in the drop zone, as anything but.

Targets must be an American thing ?

PS: in all honesty, probably thorwn the hazard descriptor around a bit as well, obstacle or a hazard, if you say that I know what you mean.

The 'target' is the area I want the wood to fall in, just makes a certain kind of sense to me, guess its just me....lol. Profit stoppers lol.

this is a pointless conversation, you should NOT be operating without a ground hand alert to your position at all times.

Tony, settle down, this is a problem solving thread more than anything else. Sometimes when climbing the groundie is busy, get over it, it happens to you just like it happens to me.

So in that situation, your groundie is busy dragging a lot to the chipper and you want to lower something out quickly while he is busy.

Thats the problem, is there a solution, I know there is, but do you ?

Discuss.

And bud, if people want to climb by themselves, its their perogative, there is no law that says solo climbing is illegal is there ? Its noty the greatest idea IMO, but people do risky things, more risky than climbing a tree every day without even thinking about it.

thats handy, you could always lower yourself out if your unconscious too!

LOL...good one.