Biodiversity Planting Formula

[HCR]

Merry Christmas to you too!

 

Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against non natives; indeed they have a lot to offer in terms of amenity, commerce and biodiversity. It's just that they can only generally play second fiddle to natives (commercial plantings excepted).

 

As you say, interesting discussion and I enjoy them too.

[JonnyVine]

Maybe start by learning how to read things properly.

 

But I think I have read properly, I read how you stated back in post 5 that native trees had survived vast extremes of temperature!? This had never been disputed so either you yourself need to learn how to read properly or wrongly believe that adapting to a slow change in climate is the same as aquiring immunity to a pathogen!

 

You circumnavigated this inacuracy by cleverly manipulating my post, and then made it look like you had written it

[treeseer]

...I've nothing against non natives; indeed they have a lot to offer in terms of amenity, commerce and biodiversity. It's just that they can only generally play second fiddle to natives (commercial plantings excepted). As you say, interesting discussion and I enjoy them too.

 

who is numbering the fiddles what timeframe are you speaking of?

 

there is a lot we do not know. guessing is ok but that is all it is.

 

by the time a tree is a veteran, is it not naturalized, and no longer exotic?

[HCR]

But I think I have read properly, I read how you stated back in post 5 that native trees had survived vast extremes of temperature!? This had never been disputed so either you yourself need to learn how to read properly or wrongly believe that adapting to a slow change in climate is the same as aquiring immunity to a pathogen!

 

You circumnavigated this inacuracy by cleverly manipulating my post, and then made it look like you had written it

 

I genuinely have no idea what you are on about.

 

My comment about reading things properly related to this comment of yours:

 

My mistake, I was had allways been under the belief that Dutch Elm Disease, or DED as you refer had been widely spread by the scolytus beetle! Not a continual chain of cloning?

 

which was in response to this comment of mine:

 

DED is quite different to most new pathogens, in that the elms that succumbed were clonal - one susceptible = all susceptible.

 

Where in what I said did I suggest that DED was spread by a 'continual chain of cloning'?

 

And as for 'vast extremes of temperature'...not quite what I said, is it? Yet again you've failed to read posts properly: my comment in post 5 was in response to post 4:

 

Locally the councils looking to change their suggestions for replacement planting requirements, ie more exotic species that can deal with environmental changes and new pathogenic threats.

 

My mention of climatic variation was in response to species that can deal with environmental changes.

[HCR]

who is numbering the fiddles what timeframe are you speaking of?

 

there is a lot we do not know. guessing is ok but that is all it is.

 

by the time a tree is a veteran, is it not naturalized, and no longer exotic?

 

It's not me numbering them! I think it is pretty widely accepted that native trees offer more in terms of biodiversity than exotics. Not every species in every situation, but generally, which is the word I used for exactly that reason.

 

A tree will never be naturalised - the term is used for a species based on the the way it behaves. An exotic will always be an exotic, even when naturalised.

[JonnyVine]

who is numbering the fiddles what timeframe are you speaking of?

 

there is a lot we do not know. guessing is ok but that is all it is.

 

by the time a tree is a veteran, is it not naturalized, and no longer exotic?

 

Exactly, and if it has been reproducing for several generations???

[HCR]

A species is deemed to be naturalised if it occurs as a self-sustaining population, persisting for more than four years, not dependent on repeated reintroduction.

 

A naturalised species is still an exotic one.

[woodyguy]

The statement

 

DED is quite different to most new pathogens, in that the elms that succumbed were clonal - one susceptible = all susceptible.

 

confuses me. East Anglian elms indeed were clonal (and as their roots survive, still are). The large Wych Elm killed just outside my front door wasn't clonal and was seed raised. As pretty much all elms have been killed both clonal and seed raised, I'm not sure how that pathogen is different. In addition there have been many waves of DED infecting Britain since the first one recorded in the Bronze age (from pollen records).

[HCR]

The statement

 

DED is quite different to most new pathogens, in that the elms that succumbed were clonal - one susceptible = all susceptible.

 

confuses me. East Anglian elms indeed were clonal (and as their roots survive, still are). The large Wych Elm killed just outside my front door wasn't clonal and was seed raised. As pretty much all elms have been killed both clonal and seed raised, I'm not sure how that pathogen is different. In addition there have been many waves of DED infecting Britain since the first one recorded in the Bronze age (from pollen records).

 

Fair point, and my choice of words wasn't ideal. It wasn't the pathogen itself that was different, but the scale and nature of its impact.

 

Wych elm is indeed susceptible (indeed in one way more so than Ulmus procera) but the reason that pretty much every U procera succumbed (and yes, I know there is the intact population in Brighton) is that they were all genetically identical, all clones of a single original tree.

 

U procera can never develop resistance to Ophiostoma novo-ulmi because it cannot evolve. It can only reproduce clonally so any offspring will have all the same susceptibilities as the parent.

[JonnyVine]

The statement

 

DED is quite different to most new pathogens, in that the elms that succumbed were clonal - one susceptible = all susceptible.

 

confuses me. East Anglian elms indeed were clonal (and as their roots survive, still are). The large Wych Elm killed just outside my front door wasn't clonal and was seed raised. As pretty much all elms have been killed both clonal and seed raised, I'm not sure how that pathogen is different. In addition there have been many waves of DED infecting Britain since the first one recorded in the Bronze age (from pollen records).

 

Allah be praised, knowledge and intelligence.

There is hope