The VTA Method, lets talk

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

anyway, as you know we are talking VTA! so given that it has a very real and agreed potential for increasing awareness of trees and understanding "respect" being the desired and much needed end result and that we are seemingly all agreed it is "THE METHOD" why is it that so may seem to find so contraversial, enough to go out on a limb and disprove what are essentialy misunderstood criteria!

 

of all the systems and methods/approaches Clauses approach is the MOST publicly acssesable, so if we really want to push the frontiers and educate the public, why are we arguing over pretty pathetic differences of opinion rather than working together and enhancing what is to my mind a critical and key link toward a new public awarness of trees?

 

My father is an industrial engineer, i worked with him throughout my child hood, it wasnt realy my bag and i ddid not really get "into it" as he may have hoped so that his son may take over his business and or work together. This always was a dissapointment for me as much as him, we had always had a troubled relationship, however....

 

When i began studying hard, and found clauses work, the body language of trees i began talking with my father about equations, about structural technicality and our relationship has gone from strength to strength. my father became so fascinated with the whole notion, the body language of trees and the beauty in what is a sublime product of bio engineering. My father and I have a common engineering interest now, his is metal, and mine is wood.

 

The thing im trying to say is that claus, his methods and delivery have inspired my father greatly, claus even sent a couple of books and a DVD over for him, and now my father is a very informed tree loving "public"

 

The power of VTA as Claus intended is going to grow, it has potential far far greater than many have realised. i believe that VTA has a role to play in the educating in the engaging and in the promotion of trees on a sclae we have only dreamed of till now.

 

I am overwhelmed by public response to being "educated" on VTA, the reading of a tree and the explanation of its causes and all the life that can be introduced and discussed when you have already fired an interest in trees that was previously sleeping within the viewer.

 

People have an inherited "natural empathy" it can be evoked and re awakened, this is the goal of a natural born includer, and i see a few within this thread.

 

I am so excited about the future, and i couldnt give a damn about the money, the prestige etc, for every single individual that i re introduce to thier "natural empathy" is one more step to a more "Inclusional world" that is too pricless for me to give up, not for all the tea in china!

 

With claus taking a bit of a back seat as he approaches his retirement it is vital we ensure the continuation of his work, the VTA method, its potential must NEVER cease.

 

What VTA does is enpower a "communion" with trees, when people feel they understand a thing it becomes important to them, and trees hold within them a powerful and old natural spiritual connection, this is fundemental to our goals.

 

Long live VTA and may we all learn to realise its hidden quality.

[BatiArb]

And your right about the quality of life that a true arborist deserves, the pay grade isnt all it should be. if i had a pound for everytime ive considered moving in to the electricians trade to triple my income i would be doing o.k! but thats another story.

 

So Cassian , how does it feel to come back to the uk for double the work load, half the money and an industry in which your efforts are thwarted or ignored or regarded with some suspicion and disbelief?:

 

as for the last bit, crikey, aint this a depresssing situation!:

 

 

Exactly.....

 

To be quite frank I am lucky if I get even close to half...

 

I am so close to selling everything, buying a smallholding and just living off the land.

 

There is only so much 'banging my head against a brick wall' that I can do.

 

And I still get hit by clients just not wanting to spend money on services that will actually benefit their trees and the environment around it.

 

 

 

 

 

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[BatiArb]

I am so excited about the future, and i couldnt give a damn about the money, the prestige etc, for every single individual that i re introduce to thier "natural empathy" is one more step to a more "Inclusional world" that is too pricless for me to give up, not for all the tea in china!

 

With claus taking a bit of a back seat as he approaches his retirement it is vital we ensure the continuation of his work, the VTA method, its potential must NEVER cease.

 

What VTA does is enpower a "communion" with trees, when people feel they understand a thing it becomes important to them, and trees hold within them a powerful and old natural spiritual connection, this is fundemental to our goals.

 

Long live VTA and may we all learn to realise its hidden quality.

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A truly inspirational posting Tony, and I am sorry my desperate thoughts followed yours.

 

You have such a way with words sometimes, it never ceases to amaze me.

 

I agree that with Claus stepping back and looking at some well earned time out. It is truly down to us to pick up the flag and fly it high.

 

 

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[Bundle 2]

in answer to the first paragraph, i agree and as much difficulty as there is in achieving a high (PHD) level of recognition it is essential.....

 

Im not sure you will succeed in taking me with you there Tony. I do not think it is sensible to suggest we need Phd's to be taken seriously. For the same reasons I think, I have reservations about some of your remarks re: education & changes to the national recognition and scoring framework. Sorry mate.

Perhaps I read more than you intended into the remark above? Not all of us would achieve this level. What happens to the industry whilst , as students, we spend disproportionate time and money on gaining quals?

I am not a big fan of the trend in this country for ascribing certification for everything we do, say, and so on, let alone the certs for auditing the audit trail...!. Nanny state gone mad...HSE gone mad...there's no end to it! It becomes a victim of it's own design as confusion is perpetuated , not diminished. That said, I fully accept and recognize the need for an accessible an universal qualifications structure as well as the quals themselves. Just as I do, the advantages that experience and wisdom bring to the party.

As always, simplicity and balance are key imo.

 

Chin up Andrew. Its probably time the developed world woke up to the reality that our material standard of living is not sustainable anyway, and tried harder to connect with the rest of the ( it could be said ) starving populations on the planet.

If we are smart ( educated) civilised and hold social values of health and well being whilst managing to extend some empathy to our fellow man, we will indeed be rich.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Bundle 2

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

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A truly inspirational posting Tony, and I am sorry my desperate thoughts followed yours.

 

You have such a way with words sometimes, it never ceases to amaze me.

 

I agree that with Claus stepping back and looking at some well earned time out. It is truly down to us to pick up the flag and fly it high.

 

 

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Andrew, dont worry about that post above this one, its a valid display of how we all feel at times and it has its place within this thread. Dont dispair my friend, our time will come, we just have to be willing to take what oportunities present themselves to make things happen, and focus our direction and energy, our flow down the path of least resistance:biggrin:

[common lime]

I apologise in advance if my comments on VTA do not appear to be very positive or constructive.

 

The big issue, I have with VTA is the complete lack or even an acknowledgement on how genes are a major influence along with the environment on the bio-mechanics of living organisms.

 

The title of Claus's lateness book 'Secret design rules of nature' says it all really, NO biology organism has ever been designed they have all EVOLVED.

 

The lack of knowledge and understanding of even the basics of evolution theory is a limiting factor on the ability to understand trees. The only function for a living organism is to produce the next generation to ensure its genes will be continue within the next generations and after its death.

 

Plants, animals, virus, bacteria and all biological organism are amazing in there ability to succeed in hostile environments and produce the next generation. In my humble opinion 'The Selfish Gene' should be on the reading list for all Arb courses. Without understanding that trees must produce a new generation in order to be a successful biological organism how can we beginning to understand their functions and forms?

 

Biology is far form sample there are often to many known and unknown variables to put into a simple equation. Also, the question has to be asked why do we need these equations, what are we managing and for whom?

 

The proper and only use of VTA is as a methodology for diagnosing visible defects within in a tree. It is not a method for understanding 'rules of nature'!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I apologise in advance if my comments on VTA do not appear to be very positive or constructive.

 

The big issue, I have with VTA is the complete lack or even an acknowledgement on how genes are a major influence along with the environment on the bio-mechanics of living organisms.

 

The title of Claus's lateness book 'Secret design rules of nature' says it all really, NO biology organism has ever been designed they have all EVOLVED.

 

The lack of knowledge and understanding of even the basics of evolution theory is a limiting factor on the ability to understand trees. The only function for a living organism is to produce the next generation to ensure its genes will be continue within the next generations and after its death.

 

Plants, animals, virus, bacteria and all biological organism are amazing in there ability to succeed in hostile environments and produce the next generation. In my humble opinion 'The Selfish Gene' should be on the reading list for all Arb courses. Without understanding that trees must produce a new generation in order to be a successful biological organism how can we beginning to understand their functions and forms?

 

Biology is far form sample there are often to many known and unknown variables to put into a simple equation. Also, the question has to be asked why do we need these equations, what are we managing and for whom?

 

The proper and only use of VTA is as a methodology for diagnosing visible defects within in a tree. It is not a method for understanding 'rules of nature'!

 

My dear fellow, selfish gene theory is just that, a theory, a precept yes, but then so is design rules of nature, if as you say, VTA is just a methadology, then too is gene theory. one might even argue about gene theory, for thier is a rather valid and inclusional theory as to evolution via natural inclusion. i say to you sir, if gene theory is to be forced upon us, then so too must VTA and the design rules of nature.

 

And of one thing i am certain, people i speak to about the body language of trees find it fascinating and enjoy the connection it makes within them to the trees, gene theory, well now go find yourself a soapbox and see how many folk you can inspire to have a more naturaly inclusive view of the world!

 

selfish gene theory is sound, and has its place in the mighty jigsaw of life, but and this is a big but, it does not and cannot explain diversity as succinctly or beautifly as "inclusional theory"

 

not only that, but the consequences of the train of thought of gene theory is like that of the theory of evolution by natural selection, it sets one up as superior, and elitest, a dangerous and biodiversely negative perception of the natural world, a world which has been created via love and inclusion rather than exclusion via the arms race of the natural world.

 

come join us in the inclusional group, youll be most welcome there.

[BatiArb]

The proper and only use of VTA is as a methodology for diagnosing visible defects within in a tree. It is not a method for understanding 'rules of nature'!

 

 

I do not think you should confuse the VTA method with CM's ideas about 'design rules in nature'.

 

VTA applies some very useful engineering principles to how the bio-mechanic structure of trees reacts to structural loading (gravity and wind) within its growing environment.

 

Yes, there is limited reference to biology and genetics, but then the method does not rely on these to be applied effectively.

 

 

 

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[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

one only has to look at the design rules of the tensile triangle method to know this rule is a law of nature, an optimal form that is as light and as strong as it is as possible to be.

 

When you learn the method, you will see things in a new way.

[BatiArb]

I do not think you should confuse the VTA method with CM's ideas about 'design rules in nature'.

 

one only has to look at the design rules of the tensile triangle method to know this rule is a law of nature, an optimal form that is as light and as strong as it is as possible to be.

 

When you learn the method, you will see things in a new way.

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Yes, I should have said observation about 'design rules in nature'.

 

From an engineering point of view this rule applies to many things in nature as CM clearly indicates, but as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, I do not consider this to be a NEW idea or observation.

 

I think it is a sad reflection of our separation from nature that it is something that has to be pointed out to us again and sold to us as something NEW.

 

 

 

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