training

[andy goddard]

do you think that some assessors are giving out qualifications too easily? it seems to me that this is the case? i work for my local athority we have had some right ones the wanabees! the 90fts! the tree kickers!:

[Log-ologist]

i wish they where cheap and hard , rather than expensive and easy.

[andy goddard]

I don't think the assessors are giving away qualifications, I've seen some real hard-arses tell candidates to get back in their vehicles as they've failed. I think it's rather a collection of other things:

 

1. People take NPTC qualifications as the final hurdle into arboriculture. They have the ticket but not the experience.

 

2. The tickets just cover the practical side of things instead of academic. E.g. they tell you what to cut, but not why.

 

3. Candidates aren't refused entry. Anyone can apply. Obviously this is a touchy issue. People with no natural talent or skills and who will be toally useless and still allowed to apply. But then again how can anyone police that?

 

4. Up until now there were no follow-on refresher courses. This has been addressed and will hopefully weed out and improve the weaker individuals.

there are alot of youngsters out there , who have seen treesurgeons at work and think they wouldnt mind becoming an arborist . maybe the courses should be longer(training) there,s quite alot out there who arent mentaly or fisicaly capable of doing the job

[Log-ologist]

I think the latest issue (april)of Forestry Journal has further interesting reading in the Letters section regarding training, following on from previous editions .

[Marc]

I did'nt realise an NPTC was a qaulification? So you can become a fully qaulified climber in 4 days?

And fully qaulified to fell a medium tree in 3?

Or fully qaulified to use a chainsaw in a tree in just 1 day (as i've seen some nptc centres saying they can get you through your certificate in just 1 day)!

 

Its a competency test, just there to give you some basic foundation on how to do this job with out killing yourself, to then build upon this with real world experience.

 

But I think that maybe a few to many incompetents are slipping through the net.

[Marc]

Passing an NPTC assessment makes the student competent in that practice. Competency is defined as:

 

1. Properly or sufficiently qualified; capable:

2. Adequate for the purpose: a competent performance.

3. Law Legally qualified or fit to perform an act.

 

Nowhere does it mention being experienced in said practice. Once competent then additional learning comes into place which then, hopefully, leads on to fully experienced.

 

Makes sense,

 

In 3 years of doing tree work I have never stopped learning, and still have so much more to learn.

I think i'm now only just about qualified/capable in most of the work I do.

 

They is just so many variables so much to learn, so many ways of doing a task, many very wrong, with so many ways to hurt yourself, the only way to become a fully qaulified arborist is good experience, i've come on leaps and bounds, and its mainly from the people I work with, forums like this and a keen mind to keep pushing myself forward.

 

I'm not knocking the NPTC system, but it never prepared me for commercial aboriculture, for example its taken many hundreds of fells of many different species with many different variables to get truly competent and qaulified. Most of what I know now about doing a job safely, effeciently and productivly I was not taught on an nptc course.

 

I'm not knocking the nptc system, its a good foundation to progress upon.

[andy goddard]

Makes sense,

 

In 3 years of doing tree work I have never stopped learning, and still have so much more to learn.

I think i'm now only just about qualified/capable in most of the work I do.

 

They is just so many variables so much to learn, so many ways of doing a task, many very wrong, with so many ways to hurt yourself, the only way to become a fully qaulified arborist is good experience, i've come on leaps and bounds, and its mainly from the people I work with, forums like this and a keen mind to keep pushing myself forward.

 

I'm not knocking the NPTC system, but it never prepared me for commercial aboriculture, for example its taken many hundreds of fells of many different species with many different variables to get truly competent and qaulified. Most of what I know now about doing a job safely, effeciently and productivly I was not taught on an nptc course.

 

I'm not knocking the nptc system, its a good foundation to progress upon.

 

i work for my local council, we have had 10 lads in as many months ,im eager and keen to teach any one who wants to learn but some of these lads havent got the mental or phyisical strengh ,one lad just got layed off he ,s worked for various companies but wouldnt go out on a limb unless somone was in the tree with him ? got relivent quals but scared to branch walk and make some pathetic excuse to come down. he told me before he left he was going to fit stoves for a living ! good luck to him!!!

[Log-ologist]

I did'nt realise an NPTC was a qaulification? So you can become a fully qaulified climber in 4 days?

And fully qaulified to fell a medium tree in 3?

Or fully qaulified to use a chainsaw in a tree in just 1 day (as i've seen some nptc centres saying they can get you through your certificate in just 1 day)!

 

Its a competency test, just there to give you some basic foundation on how to do this job with out killing yourself, to then build upon this with real world experience.

 

But I think that maybe a few to many incompetents are slipping through the net.

 

Qualified.

 

having the qualities, accomplishments, etc., that fit a person for some function, office, or the like.

 

 

Much less are they competent.

 

Competent.

 

having suitable or sufficient skill, knowledge, experience, etc., for some purpose; properly qualified.

 

 

Either way your a beginner and have a long road to travel.

[Deb]

I think the latest issue (april)of Forestry Journal has further interesting reading in the Letters section regarding training, following on from previous editions .

 

Just read that artical yesterday, I think the idea about logging hours is a great idea, at least then employers know what their taking on. I wouldn't mind following that system, you've got something to show for all your work then aswell.

[Log-ologist]

Logging hours is a way forward. I think it may be hard to prevent cheating though. It would be useful in climbing work. In arb work felling is such a small part of the job., but crosscutting is big. In forestry I often felled more trees in a day than I do in a month now.