SussexHarry

Hi all, Plumpton College, or LandPro training, have let me down by cancelling my aerial rescue course that was booked for NEXT WEEK at short notice… the trouble I went through to secure leave from work to attend this course is immense and I’m very disappointed. Does anyone know of any courses being run next week (starting 21st Oct) that have spaces left? Closer to Sussex the better but I don’t mind getting a B&B! Thanks

A friend of mine has one and works it retrieving. Bit of a toss-up. I prefer the way cockers work and the smaller size, but feel the temperament of a FRL would be better. It’s going to be a shot in the dark as, like you say, both breeds can be a handful. Will come down to the individual dog I think.

Thanks, I’m currently thinking along the lines of a working dog - cocker, or maybe a fox red lab - with the intention of actually working them. Good to see that plenty of the people here have success taking their dogs to work. Leaving the dog at home is absolute last resort, but there are plenty of family who have offered up to spend the day with a puppy - whether that will continue after puppyhood, I don’t know… doubt it! Then there’s dog walkers, and the odd day when my partner isn’t working. All going well, pooch would be at work with me all day, but I’m trying not to hedge all my bets on that being a given. You never know how they’ll turn out. Worst case scenario is I have to drop the dog off with family on the mornings I can’t have them with me, and the poor thing will have to spend all day in the company of two sassy chihuahuas!

In my research before getting a dog I’ve found lots of similar advice about having a cage as a safe place for the dog. How’d you go about training that when they’re puppies? Any tips?

Is yours on site every day then?

This is why I’m asking. Seems like lots of people have spaniels, labradors, pointers, etc, which makes me think they either take them to site every day or have someone at home all the time - quite a luxury either way!

Hi all, I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a dog. Me and the better half are both on board, but we aren’t sure about leaving the dog at home during the day. We both work… Does everyone here take their canines to jobs with them, or have someone at home? Or are we best off forking out for a dog walker every day? Any dog pictures appreciated!

Yes, but understandably so… Employers aren’t afforded much else in the way of protection from trouble employees. And once they’re in, they’re in. So it makes sense having an extended probation period to make sure they aren’t serial dossers 😂

As far as I know there is no maximum probation period set out by HMRC (if that’s what you mean?). Guidelines suggest 3-6 months. One company I trialed with asks for 9.

I was thinking this. But I am starting to wonder if some time on PAYE would be beneficial to start, just for some job security and steady income while I save up and acquire my own kit. Starting up on my own is a long way off though. There’s enough one-man-bands in my area doing jobs for cheap… I’d rather wait a while and get something a bit more professional established, as and when the time is right. Still got a while to go.

I appreciate it’s not the most exciting topic but, as someone who is joining the industry with the idea of one day starting my own company in the back of my mind, it’s important to me. Start as you mean to go on, and all that…

I figured this was the case. I get that arb is a very seasonal career, and the jobs tend to be short and sweet (negating the need for a whole team of full-time staff), but it seems to me that efforts by employers to dodge this comes at the expense of their “freelancers”, who are working full time but missing out on holiday pay, sick pay, and missing out on crucial employees right and entitlements. One company I worked for briefly runs an entire team of full-time “contractors”, who show up at the yard every day at 7 sharp. I’m sure this works great for them at the moment, as they don’t have to pay any NI, Income tax for their staff, sick pay, holiday pay, and so on. But I can’t help but think the young lads on the team are getting royally f***ed by this setup and I don’t think the poor sods realise it. Not to worry though, because the boss got a nice big new truck recently 🤦‍♂️ and I doubt he’ll care much when the work dries up and his staff haven’t got a leg to stand on when they start wondering about redundancy pay…

I’m sure it does, when done lawfully! But there is no such thing as “self-employed” when you’re doing it for one single company full-time. HMRC would consider you to be an employee in that case, and that puts your “client” (employer) in a very tricky position when someone decides to have a nose around their tax affairs. They would also be liable for any missed sick/holiday pay.

Yeah, I don’t plan on working full-time for a company unless it’s PAYE. If I had my own truck, saws, climbing gear, and worked for a few different companies then fair enough. But dragging brash and climbing for one company full-time as a “contractor” seems like a great way to get bent over by the tax man. Just seems strange that most companies around me are doing this. I can only assume they’re all just dodging employer’s responsibilities and tax just to save a few bob.

I seem to recall reading that part of IR35 is that it’s now the employer’s responsibility to work out whether a contractor is inside/outside IR35, and any NI/income tax due because a contractor is actually an employee is owed by the employer.

I get this - however as I understand it, if I am working for the same company and operating in a similar manner to an “employee”, when I would actually need to be on the books. By claiming to be self-employed, I’m creating a tax liability for the company due to IR35. It’s my understanding that you simply can’t be self-employed and working for the same company full-time - especially if you’re using their tools, branded clothing, and calling the boss “boss”.

Hi all, I’m sure this topic has been beaten to death, however I’m having some issues working things out. Essentially I am looking to move into full-time employment in Arb and have been looking at employment opportunities again. When I was last exploring this earlier in the year I was offered two full-time jobs (which I incidentally turned down for personal reasons at the time). One of these positions was PAYE, with a large company. All above board. The other was also full-time - show up at the yard at 7, wear the company hoodie, do what boss says needs doing that day and then come back to the yard to do whatever needed doing there. 5 days a week… except this person wanted to pay me as a “contractor” - as in I invoice him for the money owed, and then it’s up to me to sort out tax, expenses, holiday, sick pay, etc. As I understand it under IR35, that second scenario is not lawful and, should HMRC come knocking, land both myself and the prospective employer in some trouble. My issue is that now I’ve started to look for full-time tree work it seems most local arb companies are operating in a similar fashion. Full time work, kit provided by the company, boss on-site, except no-one is on PAYE! Am I missing something, or is everyone just winging it and hoping HMRC don’t come knocking?

Definitely. Considering the risks involved in tree work I wouldn’t dream of showing up for anything less than minimum wage and that would be with zero tickets and zero experience. I think anyone agreeing to step foot on a site for £80 a day is selling themselves incredibly short - then again if they’re agreeing to that wage then perhaps the problems go deeper than simply selling one’s self short. I think arboriculture wages are far behind the other trades. Considering it takes thousands of pounds in equipment and training to become qualified and the risks of injury involved in the work, you’d think employees would be paid fairly. Unfortunately there’s an industry-norm of underpaying people and keeping them as self employed contractors (i.e: disguised employees). One of the firms I trialed with offered me full-time work as a “contractor” 5 days a week (but still wanted me to show up at specific times, stay until he said I could go, and call him “boss”). This unfortunately appears to be fairly standard for the industry, but is through all intents and purposes a predatory employment tactic that provides the company with full time staff, but exempts them from paying NI, sick pay, paid leave, and protects them from any liabilities should they get injured at work. I was insulted to be offered this. But it seems quite common! Almost makes me think there’s a gap in the market in the arb industry for a company that treats employees fairly and legally.

I’m still in the process of switching careers, however when I went about getting work experience with various companies (with no tickets) at the start of the year I was on £100 a day. When I got my chainsaw, cross cut and small fell tickets, I was offered a PAYE job with a local firm at £110 a day. Keep in mind at this point I had only worked about 10 days total in the industry all during my time off from the day job… I had my own PPE but no equipment. Work ethic speaks volumes. Simply being someone who can be relied upon to get to work on time, not bring any dramas, and do the job without complaining, are all invaluable - even more so is recognising these qualities in yourself and marketing them to employers. It so turned out that I never took up tree work full time, but I am soon going to complete my aerial rescue course, at which point I may start looking for full time work as a trainee climber. Haven’t yet explored what I might be able to negotiate for that. So to answer your question: £100 is what I’d be after minimum, as someone who simply shows up willing to learn and be useful on site. Four companies were willing to pay this for a few trial shifts and one offered it for a full time position. With some tickets, experience, and PPE I’d expect £110 a day. One firm offered to start me on £80 a day which, compared to other companies local to me, fell far short of the mark. For someone who is perhaps not very reliable or brings baggage to work (drug user, questionable work ethic/professionalism, lack of enthusiasm etc) then perhaps £80 a day is reasonable, but if you’re serious about the job and got your head screwed on you should be aiming for more than this, even if you’re just dragging brash.

Apparently it’s James Smith instructing it. If anyone knows of them?

Life isn’t easy off the estate don’t you know… Yes I might have to bite the bullet. Then again I can’t help but think the tickets are only a means to an end, and the bulk of the learning tends to come after… hard to justify the extra expense and travelling time for what is essentially a tick in a box for employment prospects. Maybe I’m being too pessimistic! Would a company really not hire me because I did Aerial Rescue at one particular training provider instead of another?

Looking to get my Aerial Rescue. Paying out of pocket and Plumpton is both the cheapest in my area and closest to me. I did my chainsaw maintenance, cross cut and small fell at Scott Fraser Training. The training there was brilliant and I can’t fault it, but they’re over an hour away from me and cost about £150 more than Plumpton’s course for Aerial Rescue. The 1hr10 there and back every day was not very enjoyable. Any experiences with Plumpton - worth the money? thanks

When you say the wages are crap, how crap are we talking? I’ve seen utility arborist jobs advertised around me starting at 28,000 a year which would be a pay rise for me 😂 obviously they ask for experience but I’d be okay with a little less than that. How much lower do the wages go?

Thanks for the feedback. I totally understand and I’m not expecting to be seen as some kind of seasoned expert after just getting a few tickets. That said I’m 26 and currently earning my age in thousands a year at my current employment, and I don’t want to leave my current job and fork out 3 grand for tickets only to be paid a few bob an hour to make cups of tea. Just trying to get an idea of what that sort of job that training might get me - would I still need to go in as an apprentice for a year? Or would a company hire me as a climber on a lower “training” wage? I don’t really know what to expect once I leave the course with the tickets under my belt… I’ll have a look into Scott Fraser but unfortunately it’s the wrong side of Plumpton to me and would be a hell of a commute…

Hi everyone, A while ago I made a post enquiring about coming into this industry with no experience. Unfortunately I’ve not yet got anywhere, but I’m slowly putting things in motion regarding leaving current employment, and getting training, tickets, etc. I’ve been researching courses near me and have found one at Plumpton College, just down the road from me. They offer an intensive 8-week full time course that includes: Qualifications: NPTC Award in Chainsaw Maintenance and Cross-cutting NPTC/City & Guilds Award in Felling and Processing Trees up to 380mm NPTC/City & Guilds Award in Tree Climbing and Rescue NPTC Level 2 Award in Safe Use of Manually Fed Wood-chipper NPTC/City & Guilds Award in Safe use of Mobile Elevated Work Platform NPTC Aerial cutting of trees using free fall techniques ROLO Health & Safety Course This course is nearby, affordable, and I may even be able to get government funding to help me pay for it. My questions is, how employable does this course make me? And what pay/work could I roughly expect off the back of this? I’m not expecting to join a company as a team leader, but at the same time I’d like to get stuck in as a climber at some point and ideally not be seen as an apprentice if I’m going to fork out for all the courses beforehand. I’m also expecting to take a pay-cut leaving my current employment but I’d also like to minimise that as much as I can, hence why I want to get as many tickets under my belt as I can before finding new work. I’d appreciate any advice on the matter, thank you! Harry