Liquidambar

OK thanks - point taken I'll wait for the next planning application but the suspense is killing me

About BNG and "degradation" : BNG is adding insult to injury here - in the owner's new planning application in November 2023 the developer's BNG assessor claimed that clearing the trees in Spring 2023 was permitted by the previous conditional planning permission but did not mention that most of the pre-commencement conditions weren't discharged when the owner was felling the trees : "2. Recent management works have cleared much of the Site, meaning most recent aerial imagery is not a true reflection of the Site in its current state. These clearance works have been carried out under the approved planning permission 18/01609/FU; therefore, the Site as it currently stands (not as its previous woodland habitat) must be taken as the baseline for the purpose of the Natural England Metric, in line with published guidance. The existing site plan provided by the client has been used for base maps as an accurate depiction of the Site in its current state." The area cleared of beech and yew woodland is now described for BNG purposes as "Artificial unvegetated unsealed surface (cleared land)" no brownie points On refusing this new application the planning officer reported that the previous planning application was no longer considered extant "With a number of pre-commencement conditions not discharged in relation to 18/01609/FU, which are considered to go to the heart of the scheme, the demolition and tree works carried out are not considered to represent a lawful commencement of development. Consequently, as the time limit attached to 18/01609/FU has now lapsed, the development is not considered to have been lawfully commenced, and therefore the consent is not considered to be extant " I'm vexed that didn't stop the tree felling after the 3 year deadline passed in February 2023 but the owner now has a site with no planning permission so they'll be coming after the trees again.

Thanks Gareth - our local council says it requires a tree survey to comply with BS 5837 2012 https://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/tree survey guidance note.pdf so it seems like more than take it or leave it guidance ? But I don't know if other councils don't require a BS 5837 2012 survey or if some tree surveyors don't follow it.

Thanks for the useful link Mark About "Tree categorization: Trees are categorized based on their quality and value using the British Standard 5837:2012 guidelines " Leeds City Council are consulting on updating their policies so as to take account of carbon sequestration lost when trees are felled - not sure if they want to count the carbon stored in trees that are felled - the groups in the tree surveys here seem to go from 3 trees to 8 but the numbers usually aren't recorded - do the arboriculturalists felling the trees count the actual number of trees felled ? Do the hauliers taking felled trees off site know how many trees or the tonnage of timber they carry ?

Thanks for your response richyrich. How do you decide which trees to report as a group in a tree survey for a planning application?

Why isn't it realistic to list all the trees inspected on a site if you inspect all the trees on a site anyway - where does the extra cost come in?

Thanks Gareth - would a survey listing all trees cost a lot more than listing some of them as groups of trees ?

Thanks. Please could I ask - Do you think a tree survey should list all trees in the survey area individually rather than listing some only as groups of trees not individually identified ? What I dimly perceive is that listing as a group rather than say as 9 individual trees means scheduled tree removals of say 10 groups looks better to the casual observer like a Plans Panel than the removal of 90 trees for development rather than arboricultural reasons

Yes sorry - I'm on a learning curve - looking for information and verification - I'm adding comments and questions as they occur/ as I read - all responses gratefully received.. I'm trying to fathom how after 3 tree surveys and with BS tree standards and 2 plans panels our village still lost about 200 trees ....and to see how we can stop even more tree losses from this site when the next planning application goes in .

For the first tree survey in 2017 on this local woodland site the surveyor listed 43 groups of trees - I've tried to establish how much tree material left the site and what happened to it - in 2023 tree trunks seemed to be transported away by J&J Ward in HGVs labelled Bulk Logistics - I asked them about how much timber left the site and how it was used but got no response. The smaller stuff was mainly chipped on site and large chunks blew over adjoining gardens and was great for spreading buddleia - on site nice big butterfly population in 2023 but the owner strimmed it and all saplings all again I should make clear that the Arboricultural Consultancy who did the 2024 VALID assessment are not the company who carried out the tree clearances in 2023 .

About groups of trees in BS 5837 2012 "Groups and Un-named Trees The BSI 5837:2012 does not specify what to do with groups of trees in any great detail. With OTISS, Groups and Hedges can be created by plotting a set of individual trees and then ‘wrapping’ them up to form a single item in your reports. Plotting these internal trees is mainly useful so that you can show their Crown Spread and/or RPA on the plans. But you do not want these extra trees showing up in the reports as un-wanted clutter."

Would this easily capture all trees individually ? In simple terms, a BS5837 survey will see an arboriculturist attending a development site and reviewing all trees in the local vicinity. Each tree will be branded with a predetermined category to indicate the current condition of the tree and decide the most suitable outcome for it. A thorough above and below-ground assessment will help to establish the value and species of every tree, as well as such details as the canopy cover, crown spread, tree roots and root protection area. Undertaken using Trimble® Juno handheld (Global Positioning System) location device and PT Mapper Pro, the arboricultural surveyor can store extensive information about each tree including spatial information and accurately plot the trees straight onto an ordnance survey or topographical survey map. Results from a BS5837 will instruct the developer on appropriate next steps for the trees and demonstrate to the local authorities that laws protecting trees have been followed.

Any chance the new BS 5837 will recommend a method for accounting for carbon sequestration loss ? Local Council Local Development Plan Update Topics : "Retaining existing trees LCC aims to preserve existing trees and establish a replacement planting regime that considers the carbon storage capacity of trees." Can surveyors of trees be persuaded - is it essential now ? - to identify individually in a tree survey all the trees they see on site?

Just found this https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/committees/50000595 so looks like a while yet For a local planning application - now refused - the developer's landscape consultant wrote in the Design and Access Statement : " It is impossible to know exact numbers of trees lost as many were surveyed as a group without individual stems plotted accurately, and as such the numbers provided in this report are an estimation based on topographical survey information and physical site survey where possible." How will trees lost be compensated for if the number of trees felled is not recorded ? The developer had previously explained to the Parish Council that they were clear felling trees " to aid in surveying the site further before finalising the new planning application " BS 5837 2012 Tree surveys for the woodland site show these tree groups could be 8 or more trees - will the tree contractor who felled the trees know how many individual tree stems were removed ?

BS 5837 Revision - Consultation Author: BSI 08/11/2022Last Updated: 09/11/2022 BS 5837 Trees in relation to design, demolition and construction – Code of Practice Has revised BS 5837 been published ?