Johnelle

Most of the tree is laying in the churchyard so the tree surgeon will have to cut the trunk, leaving about 10 foot of it in our garden. I’d be amazed if it was still alive given that it’s massive roots have been severed and are hanging vertically down from the trunk.

All we want to do is remove the TPO and not have to plant another tree which would automatically have a TPO on it

Apparently a TPO is forever…

Great, many thanks

Will be in touch

Thanks Chris

Is there a possibility we could have a chat with you? 

Many thanks for your help. Much appreciated. The reason we want to proceed with the appeal is that we would like to have the TPO removed - as we don’t believe the TO can consider this w/o us applying. As the TPO still exists and will continue we would have a new tree with a TPO on it! Also, there is no legal reason why our appeal should die with the tree and that, owing to the TPO we should be compelled to plant another tree, which will automatically  have a TPO attached!

Expecting a replant condition - almost guaranteed.

Unless the Inspector appears and deems that the tree was not an amenity - it’s not now!!

To summarise:

We applied to fell the tree in Sept 2020 and temp TPO applied in Nov 2020 on the basis of local amenity. The TPO was confirmed by DC in Jan 2021 for the same reason but we were not informed - hence our original thread.

We then paid for an expert report which said there was no reason the tree should fall despite the lean/raised root plate. We were not confident and applied again to have the tree felled but, on the advice of the expert, based our application on the suckers/roots which are covering our entire garden and growing to 8’. Our application was again rejected so we went to appeal in Sept 2021. The only communication since from the Inspectorate has been that they are dealing with the backlog.

So we tried on three occasions to get the tree felled, then nature decided to do it for us. But there is still has a TPO on record. We are continuing with our appeal (which seems a complete waste of the Inspectorates time).

Seems we are not liable for damage to property as we tried to get it removed but someone has to pay for the clear up, both in our garden and in the churchyard. 

Still not heard of anyone who has had a tree fall that had a TPO AND in the appeals process.

Our District Councillor has suggested we will have to apply to ‘work’ on the TPO tree (again) to get the TPO removed - otherwise it remains on the plot

Anyone experienced this?

From my understanding yes. 

Any one want some poplar logs? Apparently they’re not that good for burning but excellent for matchsticks production

Re Chris’ reply, the stump/trunk is currently horizontal - hopefully they wouldn’t maintain the TPO on this!

We did have a full tree inspection which should be an attachment to the above link.

The DC apparently read this report (and took little notice of it??)

https://meetings.westoxon.gov.uk/documents/s2829/Item 06 - TPO Report - Tithings Station Road Shipton under Wychwood.pdf

This is the council’s reply to our second application which mentions applying topsoil to cover the suckers

I did try pushing on several occasions but the bugger wouldn’t budge…

We were amazed because we were only on amber alert. Tree surgeon was also surprised, the main massive root had been torn in half, looks like it twisted as it uprooted

No, we are delighted! We had sunshine in our kitchen for the first time mid afternoon today! ANd we never have to pick up all the leaves again.

Just hate that our neighbours (a care home) have been stressed out by yesterday’s incident.

2 hours ago, skyhuck said:

Not necessarily.

 

A council was found liable for damage caused by a failed TPO'd tree, where they had refused an application to fell.

https://meetings.westoxon.gov.uk/Data/Uplands Area Planning Sub-Committee/20210105/Agenda/5 Confirmation of Provisional Tree Preservation Order, Tithings, Station Road, Shipton under Wychwood.pdf

This was the decision to confirm the TPO. We objected because 8’ suckers grew all over the garden due to the extensive shallow root system. Their advice to us was to cut the suckers and cover the entire garden in 15cm of topsoil. We were permitted to remove on split branch. On the basis of this we lodge an appeal in Sept 2021 and still waiting for an inspector to be allocated. We’ve been advised that although the tree has fallen the ‘root hole’ is still subject to TPO so we are asking for that to be rescinded.

Looks like we’re going to have a vertical 10’ root plate in our garden for some time…

Didn’t even last a year!!

1 hour ago, skyhuck said:

Not necessarily.

 

A council was found liable for damage caused by a failed TPO'd tree, where they had refused an application to fell.

Do you have a case you can quote for us to read? Bet they didn’t pay for removal of the tree…

Our tree surgeon had just popped round (with open mouth!), said this is now a nightmare in comparison to removing the tree when still upright. This is also a really unusual situation to have a tree with a TPO in appeal which then falls down - anyone come across this before??

Having gone to appeal about the TPO (and still in backlog since Sept) we were delighted yesterday when storm Eunice felled the poplar.

But it has damaged next door’s property and covered half the churchyard. Who is responsible for clearing up?

And are the council in anyway responsible, given that they slapped the TPO on it, despite our concerns that the tree was leaning and close to neighbouring property?

I’ll keep you updated on the 800 yr old building vs 60 yr old leaning tree saga...

Apologies, hard to keep track of who is liable...

Intending to apply to work on TPO’d tree and see where that gets us (with a tree survey of course)

Unfortunately as the Council did not tell us they had confirmed the TPO (and their legal team have confirmed that they did not inform us) we have missed the appeal date. Makes me wonder if that means they are now liable??

There was no risk assessment, the TPO was confirmed solely on the basis of amenity. Although the chair stated that we should be told when practicable that we could carry out work to ensure the safety of the tree. 

But they haven’t informed us of that either.

So the Council has not communication with us and we are left with a tree that may be at risk of falling in the future.

TPO was applied having only viewed the tree from the road. From which standpoint the lean is not visible nor the raised root plate.

Our main concern has always been who is liable is the tree falls and demolishes the grade* listed building (and obviously the safety of the people in the building). As stated we applied to fell it ( although with hindsight the tree surgeon who submitted our app didn’t stress the safety aspect other than large split branch). Our insurer has been scratching their heads over this - conclusion, get a tree survey, submit another app (can we do that if TPO has been confirmed??). The liability person said that the TPO would be overridden if the tree is dangerous.

So where are we now and what do we do? 

Thanks so much for all your comments and advice - a minefield for the humble tree owner!

Cotswolds

Where we have quite a few trees...

This was the view of the tree from the road when TPO served. And when in leaf it blocks the view of the church steeple. This is the basis on which the TPO was served. 

As to the immediate risk of harm, I take your point. Poplars are grown for wind breaks so it should be pretty stable but it’s the lean and the mound of roots to one side which concern us.

5 day DDD seems an interesting approach, need a survey first I expect

Very interesting!

Will pursue a tree report, we know some of the branches are dead but the root system is a bit alarming...

It would appear the TPO was put on purely from viewing the tree from the road and deciding it was an amenity. In a village with many many falls trees. No visit to check its location or state of health.

At the moment I think if the tree falls and damages the tithe barn we are responsible - been trying to find out from the insurers but no one rung back yet. It’s not as if we haven’t warned anyone!