BANAMAN

3 minutes ago, WesD said:

So the talking should have been done at planning or within council buildings not on the street. 

 

Talking breaks down and scenarios get worse because you didn’t or sorry campaigners didn’t get the outcome they wanted. 

 

 

from what I can gather in a nut shell...

1. Sheffield City Council PFI contract gets under way with Amey

2. Local residents wanted to keep as many healthy trees as possible and have the paid for engineering solutions applied when practical

3. Amey cuts down healthy trees and does not apply engineering solutions to some that could have been saved.

4. Local residents speak with SCC / Amey

5. SCC get ITP to justify what SCC are saying

6. ITP what SCC catered for actually went against SCC... SCC left with egg on their face...! SCC choose to ignore the ITP for months.

7. SCC / Amey and the campaigners were at one point talking but SCC / Amey decided there was no reason for talking any more...

8. Campaigners pressed on with their campaign... and so the story came about...

That list of 8 points does not reflect on the actual events and by reading those 8 points, anybody would now start to wonder why SCC are with holding the PFI contract details that the campaigners want to see. They want to see it as they believe it holds vital information. SCC have redacted heavily a lot of the information in the contract and stated it is commercially sensitive as to the reason why...! This now looks like even more so they may have something to hide...! Recently even the opposition of the council have asked to see the contract in full in order to be able to answer concerning questions from which can be obtained from the contract. If the opposition in the council can't see it, then why ? This is much deeper than what I am stating and there was always talks in the beginning... For more information and a more accurate account of events, I suggest you contact Sheffield City Council with your own questions and see if they will either answer them, or palm you off...! Alternatively, S.T.A.G. is the umbrella and classed as the steering group for all the sheffield groups trying to get answers to the questions from SCC / Amey. In all fairness, I have not even touched upon some of the deeper issues yet in order to make a public record of events due to the nature of multiples of campaigners, pro or against not speaking out enough. Also due to SCC / Amey the arbs and the groundwork's under the influence of.... Wait for it.... You must not speak to me about it...! Yes, I look a little biased for this very reason, I will just have to like it or lump it :-)

1 hour ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Disregard for personal injury....

 

Disregard for the law....

 

Disregard for the ignorance of broader public opinion....

 

You're probably right...  Reckless, irresponsible and criminal behaviour.  What will that EVER achieve.....?

If anybody breaks the law, there are already consequences and actions to deal with them, however it appears that no laws have been broken yet in regards to the man out on a limb...

1 hour ago, WesD said:

So if your campaigners are making these types of choices now and in your words it will get worse how long is it before someone becomes hurt based on these stupid choices?

 

Are you condoning injury/death due to campaigner beliefs? That may sound harsh but what happens if a campaigner runs into a working area as a worker has just finished a back cut on topping a tree? 

 

Or what if a campaigner grabs brash as a worker is snedding with a saw which could cause kickback, what if that kickback causes the saw to go through an artery?

 

Those are hyperthetical now but like you say these campaigners make choices based on what they feel are limited options to stop proceedings and they make them without thought they are made on a whim. 

 

This industry is dangerous enough on a good day!!

 

As you say this choice delayed proceedings but it didn’t and won’t stop the outcome. 

Sorry, I think you miss understand me, let me clarify for your perceptions...

1. They are not my campaigners

2. I can not predict that they will certainly get worse, I can only assume based on what I have seen to date

3. I do not condone injury or death as a means to an end and if any campaigner chooses to put themselves in a potential risky situation, that is their choice not mine, I do not tell people what to do in their campaigning, I am not campaigning, only reporting a public record of accounts or actions in any one day of my presence. If I see something unsafe, I feel obliged to state my concerns as anybody else would with a concern, but in no way have I ever protested in a way to stop any works being carried out...!

4. I must reiterate, I do not think putting one self in a position were it could potentially harm one self, however, I do believe that sometimes people make their own calculated risks based on what they believe is ok for them, nothing to do with me.

5. If people make decisions on a whim, that is their own accountability and I understand why people make the decisions they do when times get hard and desperate... this is equally challenging and frustrating to campaigners, Sheffield city Council / Amey and the arbs and ground workers.

6. I agree with you that the industry is dangerous enough on a good day, all the more reason why the arbs and ground workers need to be vigilant and stop all necessary equipment usage until the risks are eliminated... I say this from a health and safety point of view which I do believe you would also stop if this happened to yourself. It is the powers that be, that are leading the campaigners and the arbs to constantly play out what is now becoming a constant chess game to outwit each other... I don't know what opinion you may have about myself based on our conversation, but I believe we have a better understanding of each other than we did before we started talking... Talking and debating is the best option of practices in my book and sometimes when the talking breaks down, the scenario's nearly always get worse... In mine and your instance were we may agree to disagree on somethings, you will also find that I agree with some of the things you say.

23 minutes ago, WesD said:

Worse how? Please elaborate. 

For example, the other day you may have seen a campaigner clutching on to the limb of a felled tree, his reasoning for doing this was to slow down the arbs from clearing up which in turn it was alleged held up the arbs and ground crew about 5 hours. I can't confirm how long the time was in actual fact, but this was an example of things getting worse for Sheffield City Council / Amey. When I reason with myself and think about these kind of measures by any individual, history has shown that things like this can and probably will happen more often as it has shown to have a desired effect in slowing down the next tree felling. My personal opinion on that situation is very straight forward... I think the campaigner did what he believed to be his only choice at that time, yes he entered a working site area but I do not know if the machine was switched on or not at the time of his entry in to that work area. As a campaigner, he felt that was his only choice at that time...! What then happened later might not have been the best choice of action. If the machine was turned on already, then for health and safety reasons should the machine be turned off immediately?

I believe it should be turned off due to health and safety concerns!

Should the arbs have tried to remove him from the branch?

I believe for health and safety reasons, they will have to use reasonable actions which are conceived to not cause injury or else the campaigner should have been left alone to campaign his point.

Should the SIA trained operatives have gone in to remove the campaigner?

I believe that it was their job to remove the campaigner as that is what they are paid to do!

If the campaigner had have done anything to break the law, as the police was at the scene, should the police have arrested him?

I believe that the police should arrest anybody breaking the law!

Would the arbs have put the branch into the chipper while the campaigner was still holding onto it?

No they wouldn't, of course they wouldn't, no doubts in my mind they would not!

Hopefully this will allow you to see my rational way of thinking. Since that was an example of things getting worse now, I think it is very reasonable, that things will get worse if Sheffield City Council / Amey don't open their doors and talk to everybody concerned in this matter...! If my statement here looks biased, let it be known, I am merely saying it as it is based on seeing it as it happens...!

2 minutes ago, WesD said:

It is just another variable your computer deals with the outcome is still decided by your subconscious not your free will. 

 

I think thats how it goes. 

And for this very reason, we can reflect on what we did in the past and meet up and set the record straight...! This will then help to put past experiences into better context. The same thing can be said for Sheffield City Council / Amey, all they need to do is engage with the campaigners and not claim that they have done and that it gets them nowhere... This in my opinion looks to me like Sheffield City Council / Amey have closed the door on the campaigners and this is why the arbs and ground workers are struggling with what is presented to them on a daily basis... All because Sheffield City Council / Amey won't talk anymore...! Well I must say that Sheffield City Council / Amey appear to have a very big dilemma in their hands which from their actions in the past, don't look very good for their futures...! I come to this conclusion based on my interactions with Sheffield City Council / Amey and the campaigners and until something changes with Sheffield City Council / Amey for whatever that reason might be, then this problem may only end up getting worse...!

11 hours ago, WesD said:

Apparently not we are all just learning that there is no free will and any choice we make is our computer giving us a pat on the back and giving us the mirage that we made a choice but the truth is conditions, variables and information guides our subconscious into guiding us down a path based on past experiences, rational thinking and data processing so you see we cant be acountable for our actions as we didn’t have the free will to chose them. 

 

Using the other thread as my guide I dont blame anyone for protesting it really isn’t their fault they are running on commodore 64’s. 

Your reasoning is a fair analysis and can contribute to the decisions we make as individuals as we encounter certain situations in life... The heat of the moment can make any individual say or do something that they might well do say or do differently, but at the same time, each individual as for as I am concerned, can always rectify a problem that may have been caused intentionally or not by the way of dealing with the future and learn from what we say or do...! For the record, in some of my videos, the arbs depicted, we now have a better understanding of each other and it was only yesterday that we were pleasantly talking about the problems in the past and the problems they still have to endure, but unless they state this on the record, my hands are tied and I will accept that I am perceived to be biased...!

12 hours ago, bankhouse builder said:

My opinion on this matter living close to Sheffield I also know some of the Acorn team great bunch of hardworking lads just going out to do a job which is perfectly legal and is being paid for by the rate payers of Sheffield.

Its ok having a passion about trees but if you have got to live daily with pavements that have ruts in them bigger than a camels hump damage to boundary walls kerbstones raised 6inches higher than they should be then you would want something done about it.The trees have outgrown their surroundings . The council has limited resources so the sensible and practical option is to remove and replant . The trees in question all started out as saplings it is a rolling programme they aren't chopping every tree down in one operation and not replacing them.

But whatever you do not everyone will be happy but for these idiots to go into work areas hanging on to trees and giving the lads on the ground abuse they deserve all they get imo they should be arrested and charged with obstructing someones  lawful business but the police stand there like lemons. If one were to get injured it wouldn't be their fault I have worked on fracking sites the protestors were a mix of 10% locals and 90% social drop outs who we are keeping  that have made protesting a profession who exaggerate the truth, make biased videos as propaganda  to make their opponents look incompetent. When it comes down to it do these protestors represent the majority of sheffields residents probably not.

If you don't agree with something you have an opportunity when things go to planning or in this case council policy meetings to have your say that is the democracy we live in. If it doesn't go your way man up and accept it this work has been sanctioned by your elected members if you want a voice stand for council at the next election lets see how many votes you get

 

 

I think you have got a great belief that I would present in the way you state it, If there are more people like you willing to speak on the record, even with a blurred out face, I am sure this will go a long way in helping to get this point across from your's and quite possibly other peoples points of views. However, I understand for what ever reason you might not want to state on camera, but if you ever did, I would be more than happy to get this in the public domain as it is your news, not mine!

12 hours ago, Khriss said:

There is a lot of perfectly sound legislation for tree and habitat protection in the UK , the shame of it- is it is poorly implemented or missunderstood , development sites , woodland and highways / street trees , frankly , I will Not remove trees of value without a justification , and the longer I have been in the job , the more I will demand that . K

Your view is good, however this is what most of the campaigners are not hearing from Sheffield City Council / Amey and in my opinion, if a tree is healthy and it is not causing any problems, it would be rational to ask why that tree has to be removed. 1 because it is good for the environment to stay and 2 because it is beautiful & 3 it has a problem that could be fixed by an engineering solution that has been accounted for already. It appears to be on the street that Sheffield City Council / Amey are removing healthy trees that are not causing problems and from what I have heard from the campaigners, they are questioning why the engineering solutions are not being implemented for healthy trees that can be rectified where the problems are... Also, the engineering solutions are prepaid for within the PFI contract...! This is another item that is not being accounted for within the PFI contract and the campaigners are frustrated with both Sheffield City Council / Amey for not using the engineering solutions in cases were healthy street trees have been removed already...! Acorn the subcontractor are the ones taking the full force of the campaigners due to the senior managements not allegedly debating the campaign with reasoned minds. It is also alleged that the Independent Tree Report that Sheffield City Council implemented in order to justify their actions, actually went against Sheffield City Council and then they ignored it till months afterwards in the hope it will just go away...! This is another item that the campaigners are frustrated about...! Sheffield City Council have had their chances to put their point forward, Amey PLC have also had the opportunity to put their points forward and Acorn including the arbs have had their chance to put their point forward... The problem why none of them have, is because all involved have been instructed not to talk about the ongoing PFI contract and ground works with me...! This also explains a lot why my video's look biased, it's a combination of shut up and just do your work and individual arbs getting frustrated at the ongoing problems that they have to encounter on a daily basis... All it takes is rational thinking and a good frame of mine in order to do your best and do the job that you believe you have to do, wether it's controversial, argumentative or not. Hopefully this information will help understand my own dilemma about looking biased as all the information I present, is based on all the information I receive, all it takes is everybody's points of views if they can and are allowed to state them without fear of loosing their jobs. I value your opinion K, it takes people like yourself to make a difference wether you agree with me or not :-)

15 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

This is not a "if I don't do it somebody else will" scenario - even if that was ever going to be an acceptable defence.

 

Acorn Environmental Management Group Ltd is a company with some fairly bold claims on their website, the 2007 winner of the Horticulture Week landscape & amenity award (can't see that happening again anytime soon), a company with £1.275m net assets listed on the accounts to end February 2017 , a company probably making a lot of money from a contract which completely lacks credible arboricultural analysis of the justification....

 

Keep the videos coming!  Keep the protests in the public domain, keep the profile in the media - that's what politicians will come to realise their jobs are dependant upon and, hopefully, maybe slowly, they will start to ask the right questions of the right people and finally start to SERVE the people.

 

Come the day of the revolution Comrade!

 

PS - hit them up, see if you can link your vids to their 'latest news' tab on their website...  It seems to lack any mention of Sheffield operations??

Your passion for what you believe in is exactly what I want to record because it is those heart felt passions that make a difference... I am also interested in arbs heart felt passions and when they feel the need to express themselves, I am always an option who will give an equal amount of time towards for their own cause, because this is what my idea of being neutral is all about... However, I am not responsible for individual arbs accounts in their actions, everybody is accountable for their own and for all arbs who do not believe me, I will just have to settle for the hope that you can see past the problems that some arbs may have brought upon themselves and I do believe there are arbs out there who do and who will speak their mind one day in order to stand up for what they passionately believe in as well... One day, everybody will unite and then power will be restored...!

1 hour ago, Khriss said:

Actually , if it is the  ' I cut it - I get paid' view , I recall my boss having to race to the Magistrates to answer charges after we were put on a job to clear trees in a conservation area ( I was personally unaware of ) an phoning me to make sure the last fell had been done - just as the TO was driving down the road with a Stop Works order ( He was actually realy nice about it ! )

 

 So I never want to be in that situation where yr work is being questioned or yr breaching legal positions just so you can make a buck , or yr boss is yelling  ' ....just get the f'@@ ing tree down !' in yr ear . K

I don't agree with any boss who just yells at anyone to just get the tree down, and I know exactly what you mean. I say to the bosses who are like that, get your self out on the frontline and see what it is for the pressures and frustrations you are putting your employee's under...

1 hour ago, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi said:

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick there, he was making reference to the contractors cutting the trees not your videos.

I think if you were seen to be impartial in your films and gave a more balanced coverage of the issues, then people would be more willing to answer your questions here.

I wasn't sure, always best to ask :-) with reference to trying to be impartial, if you notice by video 3, the arbs and ground workers weren't talking to me and even one of them was shown a hand not to speak... then on video 4 I was minding my own business when out of the blue the arbs stopped working and decided to ask me to move my car which was not in anybodies way, the fact about the road being closed and open for access should never have come in to it... but the arbs I guess just didn't understand I was filming for my own reasons to get what is called cutaways... these are used in video to cut to when information about a certain topic is being referred to. As the video goes on to show, I was concerned about them asking me why I should move my car... I ended up posting the video including may voice in it because that was what it was and that was how it unfolded...! Yes the arbs and myself got off to a bead start but if that shows me to be biased, then thats the way it will have to be until somebody decides to speak up for the arbs or even the arbs themselves... Fiat least you can see from other videos that I try and get peoples points of views across, but the arbs have already been advised not to speak to me from a very early start and I will always leave my door open for any arb to have their say... I have heard from arbs off camera that they have had to put up with bad language and snide remarks and in recent weeks allegations of a car trying to run an art down, but unfortunately I can't state this for them, they will have to speak it themselves as I was not their when these allegations took place... So for now, looks like I will have to accept that arbs don't want to talk and until that changes, I am going to have to look biased...! I even got one are stating to me on camera that he thought I was going to attack him...! I included that statement of the arbs in a video upload because I do not know where on earth he got that opinion from and if he wants to say that to me on camera knowing full well I am recording what he says, this just shows me what I am dealing with and as for as I am concerned I am uploading a public record of events from which this happened in public...! At the end of the day, all I can say is this... if no arbs want to speak to me on the record, then I can not look any other way but biased and I am the kind of person who holds no grudges and will just carry on regardless...! I say all of this with love and understanding for all fellow human beings as we are all equal and are all responsible for our own actions whether they are good or bad :-)

2 hours ago, Marula said:

Brave man stepping into this den. I think you'll find the majority of people here look at it as "I cut it, I get paid".

I'd like to add it's not down to the company doing the work, the problem lies with the council. If the company in the video didn't take the contract another company would have.

I totally agree with what you say about any company taking the contract, I am not sure what you mean by the bit you say "I cut it, I get paid" If that is a reference to myself, I don't mind stating for public record, nobody pays me to make these videos, I make them as a public record of events as and when they happen. If anybody has any relevant questions to anything seen in any of the videos, I do not mind answering them if they are reasonable.

1 hour ago, Gary Prentice said:

I don't and can't remember where I read it. I'll email Bill and ask him and see if I can post it here.

 

EDIT:

After looking at the first three videos on your Facebook page, I don't think I'll bother. I've no intention to pandering to your agenda in any way, shape or form. Your videos, no matter how you attempt to justify them, are so overtly biased I'm having no part of it. 

 

I'll debate this subject with anyone, but I'm sure that your intentions are simply to use whatever comments you can gather here and to present them elsewhere to support your own aims.

I'm out!

I understand how you have come to this viewpoint, hopefully somebody will share their views, if not, I will have no choice but be portrayed as somebody with a biased point of view... My offer was always on the table in the beginning but if I was not being honest, I wouldn't have put the videos up as they presented themselves on the day as a public record of events... Unfortunately people depicted in the videos you might have watched, are actually responsible for their own actions, just like myself. But thank you any way, your view based on what you perceive, I respect.

3 hours ago, Gary Prentice said:

Have you read Bill Anderson’s article, which was published earlier this year?

 

Probably the most well written explanation of how and why the situation has occurred in Sheffield 

Thanks Gary, do you have a link to the report you are referring to?

51 minutes ago, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi said:

Just checked out some of your videos, "a little biased" I think you need to reassess .  I think you might get short shrift here.

My door is always open and I hope others will take this opportunity to help get the message across from an Arboriculturists point of view... I do believe I have given fair opportunity and will always allow that opportunity to exist to put the record straight. Thank you for your point, I understand fully why you have said this :-)

Hello to everybody...

Since August 2017 this year, I have been creating a public record of events in the form of small video productions. They depict the ongoing controversial tree feelings happening in Sheffield to date. I am very keen to hear from any Arboriculturists with their views regarding how they think their industry might be affected, when actions of this nature by Sheffield City Council go ahead. Although some of the videos I have put online may look to be a little biased, I can assure you that my intention is to give everybody an equal opportunity to have their say and put their point across, but unfortunately some videos have ended up looking like my intention is not as intended, for which on my part, if I have offended anybody, I sincerly apologise as it was not my intention in the first place and I can assure you, it is not my intention as time goes by...! Although I have highlighted in the past to all concerned in the videos that their points of view are important, I do believe and understand their concerns for whatever they might be, as to why they have chosen not to speak with reference to what they might want to say if anything at all...! Therefore I am extending my offer to any Arboriculturists as well as those I continue to encounter on a weekly basis. However, what I would like to say now is that each and every individual including myself, must accept responsibility for their own actions, even more so in the presence of a video recording camera...!

Are you an Arboriculturist working in Sheffield now or have been and do you want to share your views?

I would be very interested in knowing your views either on hear or by a private message if anonymity is your preference. You can message me directly on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BANAMAN.Productions/

As an Arboriculturist, have you been subject to any threats or violence either physically or verbally while working on the PFI contract in Sheffield?

Have you witnessed any threats or violence either physically or verbally while working on the PFI contract in Sheffield?

As any aspect of your job working on the PFI contract in Sheffield affected you in any way at home or at work?

Does your future work depend on keeping as many healthy street trees as possible?

If you are an Arboriculturist in another part of the country not working on the PFI contract in Sheffield, I would also be interested in your views.

Have you been following what is happening in Sheffield regarding the current ongoing tree situation and want to share your view?

Does your future work depend on keeping as many healthy street trees as possible in our city's towns and villages?

How would you feel if you had to endure what the Arboriculturists working on the PFI contract in Sheffield?

If you would like to see a public record of events uploaded to date, please click the youtube link below.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5IXghZwEoqj61jjjQqW3Q/videos

Hello to everybody...

Since August 2017 this year, I have been creating a public record of events in the form of small video productions. They depict the ongoing controversial tree feelings happening in Sheffield to date. I am very keen to hear from any Arboriculturists with their views regarding how they think their industry might be affected, when actions of this nature by Sheffield City Council go ahead. Although some of the videos I have put online may look to be a little biased, I can assure you that my intention is to give everybody an equal opportunity to have their say and put their point across, but unfortunately some videos have ended up looking like my intention is not as intended, for which on my part, if I have offended anybody, I sincerly apologise as it was not my intention in the first place and I can assure you, it is not my intention as time goes by...! Although I have highlighted in the past to all concerned in the videos that their points of view are important, I do believe and understand their concerns for whatever they might be, as to why they have chosen not to speak with reference to what they might want to say if anything at all...! Therefore I am extending my offer to any Arboriculturists as well as those I continue to encounter on a weekly basis. However, what I would like to say now is that each and every individual including myself, must accept responsibility for their own actions, even more so in the presence of a video recording camera...!

Are you an Arboriculturist working in Sheffield now or have been and do you want to share your views?

I would be very interested in knowing your views either on hear or by a private message if anonymity is your preference. You can message me directly on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BANAMAN.Productions/

As an Arboriculturist, have you been subject to any threats or violence either physically or verbally while working on the PFI contract in Sheffield?

Have you witnessed any threats or violence either physically or verbally while working on the PFI contract in Sheffield?

As any aspect of your job working on the PFI contract in Sheffield affected you in any way at home or at work?

Does your future work depend on keeping as many healthy street trees as possible?

If you are an Arboriculturist in another part of the country not working on the PFI contract in Sheffield, I would also be interested in your views.

Have you been following what is happening in Sheffield regarding the current ongoing tree situation and want to share your view?

Does your future work depend on keeping as many healthy street trees as possible in our city's towns and villages?

How would you feel if you had to endure what the Arboriculturists working on the PFI contract in Sheffield?

If you would like to see a public record of events uploaded to date, please click the youtube link below.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5IXghZwEoqj61jjjQqW3Q/videos