Inoff the Red

On 20/08/2019 at 12:44, openspaceman said:

 I'll wait to see what accountants like @Inoff the Red say but  you are confusing your gross turnover with profit (aka income) and that £6k is right for a profit of £31k.

 

Your profit was £18k and you have capital allowance on the truck to deduct from that, I'd say the real figure would be nearer £1400 tax

 

Have you paid your National Insurance? Don't miss it.

Just got back from a few days away and i have only just seen the notification of this thread.

I will have a read and submit a more considered response later 

1 hour ago, Paul Cleaver said:

guinness in Ireland - oh - the preparation is a work of art - My misses asked for a dash of blackcurrent - silence beheld the pub

Well at least she didn't ask for a lemonade top....that is a cruel (but amusing) stunt to pull on a new barman.

On 06/05/2019 at 11:52, Jamie Jones said:

But a few years ago my accountant stated that I was getting close to the point where I would have to approach the customer for a full time position (Which would mean that they would drop me and use other). If I crossed the threshold your accountant is duty bound to inform the tax man of your situation.

The only way that I can see you can get around this is by being a limited company. But If I am correct this can still cause problems. In the Building / Construction Industry contractors on major construction site are often taxed at source.

I think your accountant is being a bit soft. If you were actively seeking work from other sources and did work for more than one person then HMRC would struggle imho. 

With regards to a limited company being taxed at source under  CIS, a company that pays its tax on time is likely to be granted gross status so deduction at source would not be a problem.

Even if the the company was subject to CIS deduction at standard rate you can claim it back through the company's paye scheme.

1 minute ago, forestboy1978 said:

Thanks for this excellent info. How the hell do you know all this stuff..

 

Does a quote presented via pdf that doesn't have a signature at the bottom, but via email is confirmed as being acceptable stand up in court if someone was to dispute anything?

 

I used to have people sign quotes but I noticed a significant drop in conversion once I implemented it so I stopped doing it. 

 

Ta

How do I know this stuff?...All part of the job. Although I am an accountant by profession, I spent 15+ years working in corporate recovery (helping businesses in the s*** to get out of it) and corporate finance (advising on buying/selling companies and stock exchange work). 

As for the answer to your question, let me try and explain it by going back to first principles (and apologies if this is bit long winded but stick with it).

The basis of any contract is offer and acceptance. The basis of the contract is therefore based on what you offered and what was accepted. If your quote is merely a description of the work you will do, when you will do it and the price you are charging then that will form the basis of the contract between you and your customer and it is not open for either party to unilaterally change the terms of that contract. (I have put that bit in bold because it is crucial to understanding potential pitfalls).

Referring back to the retention of title issue, if you supplied widgets to a customer who didn't pay, then without informing the customer prior to the contract that you retained title to items supplied until they had been paid for , then you could not legitimately recover those items because that was not an agreed part of the contract. 

Actually establishing whether a term has been included into a contract can also create difficulties. Merely putting your terms and conditions on an invoice and relying on them to be valid in any contract can be difficult. An invoice is a post contractual document and therefore the terms governing  the contract pre-date the invoice. If however, there is a regular course of dealing with a customer then it could be argued that the terms on the reverse of an invoice could be inferred to have been incorporated in future contracts but this could be open to challenge and is, imho, a big risk to take when there are simple ways of avoiding this potential pitfall.

To avoid a ruckus about what terms were actually agreed in a contract there are a number of strategies to avoid disputes. Examples are set out below but I appreciate that some of these may be inappropriate/ not worth the ball ache for small owner managed businesses:-

1.  Have a formal set of terms and conditions pre printed which are sent out customers with a request to sign and return an acknowledgement of acceptance. A more subtle way of doing this is to enclose a set of T&Cs with a form which is effective a request by the customer to open a credit account with the supplier. Somewhere on the form is a clause to the effect that application for a credit account is acknowledgement of acceptance of the T&Cs.

2. Include the T&Cs on a quote. If they are printed on the reverse side of the quote, make sure that there is reference to them on the face of quote to draw the attention of the reader to the content on the back. Failure to do this could give a reason to dispute their inclusion into a contract. (Again this risk could diminish if there is a regular course of dealing between the parties).

 As for proof of acceptance of the terms within a contract , the increasing use of email has changed things and if a matter ever got to court then the matter would be decided on the facts. If your quote sets out the terms and price, work to be done including a start date etc then in the absence of anything in writing / email to the contrary if your customer sought to avoid accepting any terms contained therein I think you could argue that the fact that he let you onto site to do the work could be deemed to prove acceptance although it does introduce an element of risk.

If circumstances allow and you have had no email acceptance from the customer, then it may strengthen your hand in any future dispute if a day or so prior to starting you send a further email confirming the start date for the work to be done in accordance with and subject to the terms of the quotation.

As said previously allowing access to the site may be deemed acceptance of your terms however, if you were merely selling items to a customer which would be delivered to his premises, then without some definitive proof of acceptance then any terms in the quote may be disputed so you would need to weigh up the risk.

A further wrinkle in the T&C saga, is when you send a quote with terms of sale and the customer submits a formal order which contains their terms of purchase. Unless challenged by the supplier, the purchasers  terms will govern the contract.

Hope this helps but please note I am not a lawyer but have sat through countless hours in meetings negotiating contracts etc so I have an idea of basics but I would suggest seeking professional legal advice if you want to establish a robust set of T&Cs. 

There is a temptation to grab a set of T&Cs from the back of a suppliers invoice and copy those. I have come across a set, written in ultra small print which contained the names of three different companies where, I suspect, someone cribbed a set but didn't do a good enough proof reading job and didn't change the name of the supplier company throughout the T&Cs and someone merely typed what they were given without question. Another company subsequently cribbed the set and again did not do a proper proof reading job. The other danger with cribbing someone else terms is that they may be up to date.

If you need T&Cs is there a trade body that can supply a model set?

On 25/04/2019 at 09:56, AHPP said:

 

Can you talk us through what a statutory demand is and when they should be used (before/after litigation) please. I think I’ve worked it out but you explain things pretty well.

 

There is actually a very good guide to statutory demands here:-

https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands

As I said in my post, what I was suggesting was a technical breach of the procedure but if received by someone after 5pm on Friday (when most lawyers have knocked off) that has not been through it before it can them cause major stress over the w/e and prompt them to pay to avoid the consequences. 

On 19/04/2019 at 13:22, dig-dug-dan said:

Really? Will have to add that in! Although a dead of night removal is more amusing!

Without wishing to appear pedantic, to have an effective retention of title claim it is important to establish that the clause was incorporated into the contract. Merely putting the ROT clause on an invoice does not work because an invoice is a post contractual document (unless there is a history of trading in which case the clause on an invoice may be valid through course of dealing).

For one-off jobs or new customers include the ROT clause in any quote and order confirmation, that way it will be difficult for the customer to argue that it was not part of the contract. You also need to be careful about the wording of ROT clauses so best use something current from t'internet or incur the cost of getting a proper set of T&Cs from a solicitor. 

Depending on the materials you supply, the wording of the ROT clause can also be crucial. The most favoured clause is the so called "All monies" clause. This gives the right to recover any items you may have supplied if any monies are owing. Without this, it would be necessary to be able to identify any goods supplied to a specific unpaid invoice. For specialist jobs  identification of items subject to an o/s invoice may not be a problem.

The problem with ROT clauses comes when the work you have done is combined with work done by someone else or if your work is permanently attached to something. So an ROT claim for something bolted to another item would succeed because you can unbolt it. If it is welded onto something else then it would fail.

Other tactics:-

1. Send him an invoice for interest for the late payment of a debt plus £70 for admin.

2. Download a Statutory demand form from the Insolvency Service web site. Fill it in with details of your claim and then manually hand it to him or post it through his letterbox after office hours on a friday afternoon. The receipt of a document requiring action within 21 days to avoid the possibility of bankruptcy tends to focus the mind and ruin a weekend for them (this is particularly effective if someone bounces a cheque on you because it is difficult then for the debtor to dispute the debt.)  Without judgement the stat demand approach is an abuse of process but it can be an excellent psychological tool to concentrate the debtors mind.

7 hours ago, ChunksBigBro said:

It is my understanding, aslong as your work is not undertaken in the preperation stage of a construction job, you and your work is exempt. But the minute you cut or prine a tree to make way for construction / building work you need to register and deduct cis from your subbies

Correct. See clause 5 in Appendix A to the HMRC Guide CIS 340 - A Guide for contractors and subcontractors.

But as the OP stated his company only did work for residential customers the CIS question is unlikely to be relevant.

In fairness to the new accountant it was a sensible question to ask and it seemed from the original post that the accountant asked whether the OP was making CIS deductions, not that he SHOULD be making CIS deductions.

If you are instructing an accountant to prepare tax returns/accounts then, imho, it is an obvious question to ask because it is an added complication that could have an impact on his work load.

If you have an iPad, why bother with Office? The Mac equivalent (Pages/Numbers/Keynote) will open Word/Exel/Powerpoint documents. You can also export from Pages etc into Office format if you wish.

I thought that iPads came pre loaded with Pages/Numbers and they are similar to use as Office

On 22/02/2019 at 21:06, htb said:

As you say 3mths till payment sucks, if you can weather it its ok, so long as they don't go tits up before you get your money. At present waiting for around 15k.

Sending your debtors an invoice for the interest on late payment of a commercial debt often acts as a prod to get paid.

https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-recovery/charging-interest-commercial-debt

You can legitimately charge interest at 8% over the BofE base rate for the period after the debt should have been paid. There are online calculators where you enter the amount of the debt and date it should have been paid. It will then calculate the interest due and also give the future daily interest cost. 

The debtor may not pay the invoice for interest but it may persuade them to bring your invoice to the top of the pile.

Unfortunately, many organisations will wait until people press for payment before they settle.

It is well worth sending monthly statements so they don't think you have forgotten about it. When companies get the message that you will press for payment then you will tend to get paid according to your terms.

I suggest making contact with those regular customers and explain communication issue and apologise for the apparent discourtesy of not returning the call, at least then they may call again with future work instead of thinking you may have retired/got too big for them.

A limited company is a separate legal entity and is owned by the shareholders.

How many shares a company issues and the nominal value of those shares is open to the company. You only need issue 1 share with a nominal value of £1 if you wish. 

The thing to recognise is that share capital is effectively tied into the company. There are ways of getting the money invested in the shares back but it is more complicated than putting money into the business by way of directors/shareholders loan. 

You could issue 1 share with a nominal value of £0.01 but anyone seeing the company's accounts may not be impressed. Companies bought off the shelf used to have an initial share capital of 100 shares of £1 each, but the number and nominal share value is up to you.

If you are transferring your sole trader business into a limited company you need to think about the value of the business and its assets that you are transferring into the company. 

Another consideration if married, is whether you allocate shares to your other half which could be tax advantageous especially if they are not working.

You should seek the advice of an accountant because switching from sole trader to operating through a limited company involves numerous changes, new bank account, new CIS registration, paye registration if you have employees, etc etc

6 hours ago, benedmonds said:

Rather than trash the employment thread I thought I would start a new one.  Beddows are seeking a member of staff and offering what looks to me like a very good day rate.

220 days at £180 a day equals £39,600 a year.  Which is going to be more than many small company owners make, and definitely more than most make in the first few years trading.. All for allot less stress.. 

 

How much is the equivalent cost to a business for PAYE. My estimates of financial cost to the business of an equivalent full time position after NIC, Pension, training, ppe etc etc. would be around £30,000 

 

But how much is having permanent employment, sick leave, guaranteed work worth?

Not to mention possibilities of progressing in the business..

 

I'm not sure what "paye at equivalent cost to business" means.

PAYE is not a cost to the business it is a deduction from an employees gross earnings which is then paid over to HMRC so the cost to the business is nil.

On 14/01/2019 at 11:56, Mr. Squirrel said:

..... I don't have any finance etc. so there's no financial risk to my 'company'. The VAT on my van was a bastard, but given I work for a lot of private customers, and contract for a few guys who aren't VAT registered I was willing to take the hit to keep the people happy. And save myself having to do VAT returns... There's a reason I climb trees for a living, I'm bad with numbers, and I don't need extra numbers to play with...

The real protection of trading through a limited company rather than as a sole trader/partnership is that if you make a mistake on a job and a tree drops on someones house any claim would be against the limited company and not against you personally.

With regards to VAT, at present the UK has the highest VAT registration limit (£85k) in the EU where the limit is significantly lower (Germany €10,000, France €12,000). This is perceived to give UK businesses an unfair advantage (dubious)while simultaneously depriving the EU of VAT revenue (probably the main reason for future change). In the event that Brexit is thwarted or we are tied into the EU, then brace yourself for the VAT registration limit to come down to levels consistent with other EU countries.

Just now, Ty Korrigan said:

Risk too, if the company had problems, you might lose your capital before the debt is repaid.

 Stuart

Obviously if your company is a bit wobbly then you wouldn't put money in, but then if that was the case you probably wouldn't get a lease anyway....at least not without a PG that puts you in the same place regarding potential loss.

19 minutes ago, Ty Korrigan said:

In 2014 I loaned our ltd company some €20k for equipment which it re-paid within a year or so.

 The accountant bawled at us for not leasing the kit on the grounds of tax efficiency.

TBH, buying the kit was a gamble which paid off, yet at the time we thought we where up to our credit limit with the banks which is why I injected funds.

 

  Stuart

 

Well, I could have an interesting debate with that accountant about his view of the tax efficiency of leasing rather than buying with own resources. Was he getting a commission from the finance company for introductions? If there is no other option than leasing is a way of getting stuff but don't forget that the leasing companies factor their costs and profit  into the lease payments so there is a cost compared with using own funds. 

4 hours ago, donnk said:

go ltd.

 

lend the company £14k to buy the van off you.

 

company buys van (V5 in ltd co name) pays you back the 14k you just lent.

 

Company now has a 14k debt on the books. Repay this before taking any earnings above your tax code. £11k ish.

 

Repeat for all your tools, gear, computer etc anything business related.

 

Same for a portion of heat, power from h ouse for running a home office.

 

If you go vat registered and can find receipts you can claim back VAT on purchases upto 7 years ago.

A few comments:-

1. I don't wish to appear to be pedantic but repayment of a debt is a cash flow issue NOT a profit and loss account issue. This means that the repayment of  the directors loan (in your example) would be from profits which would have been subject to corporation tax or from a bank loan or overdraft. The impact of AIA on the tax is a separate issue but to suggest that the repayment of a company debt before taking earnings in excess of the personal allowance as part of a tax planning exercise is misleading . It is worth noting that the effects of introducing a loan into a limited company is the same as using personal funds to buy business assets as a sole trader/partnership. Those loans can be repaid whenever the respective business cash flow allows. Repayment of a loan is not income for the purposes of tax.

2. One needs to be careful about claiming a proportion of domestic costs as a business expense. At present any profit on the sale of your principle residence escapes capital gains tax. If you are in the habit of claiming a percentage of household costs based on a room being designated as an office and work out percentage of floor area etc and claiming a portion of council tax, mortgage interest etc, then you run the risk of having that part of your residence being classed as business premises when sold and that percentage of the gain could be deemed to be subject to capital gains tax. It is safer to make a round sum claim for "use of home as office" based on the HMRC flat rate for utilities (which depends on the number of hours at home :-

up to 50 hours per month claim £10 per month

51 to 100 hours per month claim £18 per month

100 hours plus per month claim £26 per month.

The above does not cover telephone and internet costs, the business element of which can be claimed.

You can claim more if you can justify it  but I do not recommend specifying part of your home as an office and claiming mortgage interest, council tax, property repairs, new carpets etc.

3. VAT

The ability to go back a few years to recover vat on assets relates to assets purchased that are still in use within the business. The issue to bear in mind however is how those purchases were treated when originally purchased. If the full cost, including associated vat was claimed under the AIA scheme then if the vat is subsequently reclaimed then I suspect that capital allowance claims may need to be revisited because the effective cost of the asset would have reduced (by the amount of VAT subsequently claimed). This could reduce the net benefit of the vat reclaim.

I suggest getting your numbers together (and I mean summarised in a meaningful way, not just fill a carrier bag full of invoices and receipts) and then going to see the chap that will be doing your books from April and ask for his advice in preparing your 2018 tax return. It should not cost you much and he will need the info for when he starts doing your accounts anyway.

It is dangerous giving advice on one aspect of a business without knowing the full picture. 

, 

15 hours ago, Alycidon said:

I have just set up my first payment for July 19 on account under the making tax digital that comes into effect April 19.   Seek the advice of a good accountant,  not cheap but they do pay for themselves on the longer term.

 

A

Interesting. Making Tax Digital for VAT goes live in April 2019 but I understand that MTD for income tax will not go live until April 2020 at the earliest. Have you volunteered to be one of the guinea pigs that trials it early?

I was a little confused by your comment that you have set up your first payment on account for July 2019. The first payment on account is usually made on 31 January 2019 (together with any underpayment in respect of the 2018 tax year) with the second payment on account being made in July.

14 hours ago, john p said:

That is one of the best things I’ve read about brexit. (Speaking as a staunch remainer!) reckon we should air drop a load of Aussie s in to sort it one way or another!

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Appeaser Theresa has been planning this surrender from the start. 

Subcontracting would be one option and subject to the subbie doing the job properly so there is no  reputational risk and it was done on a pay when paid basis would control finances.

Defaulting on a contract (depending on the terms of that contract) opens the risk of claim for breach so I would be a bit nervous about that.

11 hours ago, Squaredy said:

 

 

You don't have to have a written contract, as a contract will be deemed to exist anyway, but you might want one to set out clearly a few rules; but take care as if your contract is all about protecting you as an employer it could fall foul of the Unfair Contract Terms act.

 

.

Actually, if the employees employment is scheduled to last a month or more then you are obliged to provide a written statement of employment particulars.

See here:-

https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars

Employing someone without having a contract of employment is a huge risk because of the almost inevitable uncertainty over terms covering, for example, holiday entitlement, sick pay, hours, duties and responsibilities, overtime, expenses etc etc etc.

Can you actually sell the contracts without the clients consent?

Is there anything in the contract that allows its sale or novation to a third party without the clients consent?

Dredik,

I cannot comment on the technical stuff you need for your work but your experience of work "waves" is common with many small businesses and start ups. 

When looking at your workload what can help is to view it in terms of a pipeline. When you start up the pipeline is empty and you work hard to get to get some jobs in and breath a sigh of relief when they do as you can see some paying work in your pipeline.

There is then a temptation to ease off working to fill the pipeline as focus shifts to working on the jobs and, as a consequence, the pipeline dries up and you experience the wave you described.

The solution is not to stop on your marketing/work getting activities and to allocate time , even when busy, to trying to fill the pipeline. It is easier said than done but it does get easier as you become established and your client base expands and your reputation develops.

Good luck with it

1 hour ago, EdwardC said:

 

 

Building relationships is key to any business, and starting from scratch isn't easy.

That is very true and it is the key to success and, as you say, it isn't easy.

It sometimes helps to put yourself in the position of the person you are selling to and try and understand their position, motives and what is causing them stress and whether they have existing contacts for doing the job that you want to do.

If you are a newcomer to the self employed lark, why would a customer choose you (an unknown quantity) over someone who they have worked with before because they may not want to take a risk on employing someone who may not deliver.

An obvious way is to pitch your price below that of the competition but this is a dangerous practice as it is easy to reduce prices but it is hard to raise them later.

Another way of attracting a customer is to offer something of value that does not necessarily reduce your margins. When I was in your position (albeit in a different sector so these may not be applicable but you may get the idea) I tried to avoid being the cheapest but would try and add value to the service in other ways. I would offer to hold meetings after 5pm or at week ends so they could concentrate on their day job before dealing with accounts and tax. I also offered a fixed price but with a right to discuss a revision (up or down) if the scope of the job changed significantly. Unlike many professionals that send out a bill for every phone call for ad hoc advice I told clients that they could phone at any time if they had a query or concern and that they would not get a bill for any calls as it was part of the service.

Of all the things I tried, this was the one that  really got peoples attention and from a personal perspective it adds little to the work load and experience has shown that knowing what clients are thinking of doing in advance actually makes my life easier in the long run because I don't have to spend time trying to unscramble some dodgy scheme or action suggested by a random bloke in a pub.

If you put yourself in the shoes of your customer and see what you can do on a technical level or even a basic admin level that will make his life easier then you may find it to be an easier sell (although to start with you may need to discount your prices a little to get into the game).

Good luck. Remember, as a self employed person there will be times when you only have to work half days......and it won't matter which 12 hours it is.

Recording phone calls gives you a record of what was agreed between the parties but I am not sure how effective it would be if it ever came to a court case.

It is always safer to get something in writing to/from the person that is going to pay the bill.