Treecreeper1961

Matt,

According to Forest Mensuration in general conifer stacks require a con\/ersion factor of 0.7 to allow for air and hard wood between 0.55 and 0.65 depending on the form of the timber.

To con\/ert \/oume to weight, if felled recently and for timber with a mean mid diameter of 20cm the following is recommended:

Oak 0.94 m3 to 1tonne

Ash 1.28 m3 to 1 tonne

Sycamore 1.2 m3 to 1 tonne

:boxing:awkward

There is a reasonable amount of shelter at the level of the tree's current crown height but something has definitely 'happened' to the top of this tree at some point in it's life.

Judging by the over extended limbs it would probably have suffered a bit of lower level wind damage if it was exposed.

A real candidate for some carefully planned retrenchment pruning I reckon.

Perhaps I should have paid more attention to the texture of bark on old oaks with stress issues! These patches of smooth bark seem pretty extreme to me.

The things that had me questioning what seems to be otherwise obvious bark symptoms of high local tension is

one, it appears in areas that perhaps you may not expect to be under tension (such as on the underside of the lower branch in shot three and high on the main stem),

and two, the texture of the bark was kind of soft, not taught and shiny as I usually seem to see.

I suppose the tension on the lower branch must be from torsional loading?

I have sen an oak tree recently with some patches of smooth unusual bark which I have not seen very often. I have definitely seen this before but never really given it a great deal of thought.

I have a feeling it may be partly due to mechanical stresses in places but it seems there may be more of a physiological dysfunction type thing going on too.

The out side of the bark had a texture that made me think it may have been dead but the cambium/bark cambium was alive.

If any one can shed some light on it that would be great.

Sorry for the photos not being the best.

This is another monumental bio security disaster of nightmare proportions. What is it about the human race that makes us almost guaranteed to make the same mistakes over again.

If indeed the cat is out of the bag then any biosecurity measures we can, may, must or choose to undertake are probably simply a matter of personal pride and conscience.

Take a look at what has happened with P.ramorum. Once the pathogen is released into the 'natural environment' it is only nature that can determine the ultimate extent of what will ensue. It seems to me that the strategy of both c. fraxinea and p. ramorum is efficient and similar in ways. There is not enough money to carry out the best practice bio security and the reality is there is no real point. Why attempt to contain such pathogens ( air born, water born, spread by birds and anything that moves) with such feeble measures as cleaning boots and tyres? ( I do clean my boots and sanitize with propellor because I cannot bear the guilt of personal responsibility and I don't know if I am just playing devils advocate.)

The British Isles has been blessed with a natural barrier against the ravages of many diseases but this isolation may also prove to be a fatal weakness. Please can we use our location to our advantage and come to our senses. We could so easily, comparatively, stop these issues before they even come ashore. Local provenance.

Of course there is more than one flaw to this theory. Creating a weak gene pool and not to mention the practice of collecting local seed to be propagated in Dutch nurseries.

Serfs never should have left the parish.

I hate sounding like a left wing fascist.

I love Ash trees, they are my favourites.

I'll throw my hat in with Alder Buckthorn, Rhamnus frangula.

Not wanting to de-rail but did anyone notice the very early loss of leaves, mostly on lower branches, on sycamores this summer? Especially on river banks. Any ideas on the cause?

I know - but I used round up regularly 6 years ago - I only looked up this article today!

 

It may have been published for years (although may not have necessarily been available online all that time) but I never thought to look up anything about roundup as everyone else selling and using it said it was harmless and a 'good one to use!'

 

That was the general opinion of it.

Yes and it has never carried any COSHH warning labels. I have read the product data sheet many times and it basically states there are no toxic effects 'short term'. However, there is no information about long term effects.

It is worrying for me too.

My old boss even drank some in front of me to demonstrate his unwavering belief that it was safe! What a role model.

I have always been suspicious of herbicides, including G., it wasn't long ago that, tongue in cheek, I compared it to asbestos, the what was wonder material that concealed such menace.

Lets hope all those pesticide record sheets have been kept. We may be needing some legal advice if this is correct.

One glimmer of hope is that Round Up Biactive is not considered as bad. Watch this space??

That sets the scene of the wildwood nicely. There must have been open grazed land for oaks to propagate.

Yes, thanks David.

It takes quite a lot of practice with the hammer to get a feel for it.

Can you pick out differences between types of decay? I was wondering whether roots that are decayed on the underside give much of a clue. Depends on the extent I guess.

:laugh1:Did you read the manual for the sounding hammer? "Must wear ear defenders when operating this equipment!"

Fascinating stuff.

Meripilus often rots the underneath of roots, I'm sure I remember you saying.( Sorry, missed that on first read,must be tired.) How does that effect the resonance of the sounding?

Agree, oak is a pioneer species, light demanding, cannot realy regenerate under it,s own shade. Strange one because it is also a climax species but that is lagely due to land management I would guess.

urgent needs require bold statements, i learn that from Nev! the best instigator of em all:thumbup1:

 

But seriously, the key to a robust healthy tree is in the soil, in the "rhizosphere" all other pests and diseases are rendered almost unimportant by a healthy growing environment. we know this, its what makes the difference between a downward spiral and just another episode in a trees long long life.

 

so YES we do need to focus our energies at the foundations and build a stronger tree stock from the ground up, not the top down!

I agree. Climate change, however, is having as much of an effect on the rooting environment as it is above ground. Pests and diseases are thriving in the soil just as they are on the leaves.

O.k. perhaps all arb. focus and resources should be aimed at mycorrhizae, I'll give you that.

So many oaks in decline:thumbdown:

100+ years is a long time to be on the concern list, IMO, there is a much greater set of threats the biggest one the loss of Mycorrhizae for which we should be focusing ALL our money and time on IMO at this time.

There are so many issues of concern for our trees these days. The loss of interconnected mycorrhizae is a massive issue that is overlooked as it's subterranean nature helps keep it a mystery to many and unknown to most. It is not only in our woods but in our fields too that this special heritage is almost gone and the consequences of this may never truly be understood.

Climate change is the topic of the day that seems to be exacerbating all our tree troubles. The change in the seasons, extended growing time, reduced dormant period, the warm and damp conditions all have an effect on tree's energy. Pests and diseases are thriving and expanding their ranges and niches under these changing conditions. Mildews must be rubbing their hands with glee.

It is the accumulative effect of all of these things that threaten our mighty oaks. We need to be focusing on the big picture and looking at every aspect of our civilisation. The way we conduct our business is what we need to change. Sustainable living requires a complete overhaul of our civilisation. The focus in conservation has shifted from taking care of individual species to looking after the habitat, the ecosystem;and then the species take care of themselves.

To say we should be putting all our resources into myccorhizae seems a strong statement considering climate change has the power to destroy myccorrhizal communities. We need an holistic approach. Myccorhizae represent the true interconnectedness of everything in a very literal way. You could be right. Perhaps it is the destruction of these age old links that is causing the breakdown of our ecosystems,our life support, but we can't treat them without changing the way we farm, addressing the climate issue and living sustainably in a way that respects the resources we take for granted.

You can't bring back thousands of years of evolution unless you allow it respect and time.

We could be screwed without our fungal life support system, but, if we do things the right way they could recover in time.

Mycorrhiza and how it works.docx

Erysiphe alphitoides. Thrives in mild, damp and overcast conditions. Really loves Wales. Difficult damn name to remember.

I havnt seen the report yet. But I do know it has been Tomographed and resistographed on the buttresses. Will post when I hear.

Nice one.

Just wondering whether there is any news on the investigation.

Cheers,

:laugh1:Sounds reasonable to me.

Why wouldn't you charge

In my experience the homeowner/ management company just don't want to fill in the forms (don't want to look stupid morelike)

I think a £50 charge is reasonable and don't refund if they get us to do the job

It's work we've done and should be paid for

I agree whole heartedly. The client is requesting your service as a professional and no one should be expected to do a couple of hours work for free as a sweetner.

If the client is able to fill in the form and specify work in a manner that is acceptable to the tree officer then they have the option. Raising the standards of the industry is a responsibility that LA's and Arbs should be shouldering together and having a system like the TPO form is a big part of that. If the work is not specified to BS3998 then the application should not be approved. If the average client can specify BS tree work then they would probably fill in their own forms!

The tree will be fine, it was just a flash fire, the loss was habitat and the life that live'd in it.

The damage in the second picture looks pretty serious.

Whilst it's true char is recalcitrant and resists rotting, and that's why it is a good candidate for reverting atmospheric CO2, it is also porous and shrinks tangentially and radially by over 10%, depending on heat and species, this means fresh wood is exposed to microbes via cracks.

Perhaps not as effective as treating softwood then.

If you are using untreated hardwood (oak or sweetchestnut) then it wood provide protection above the natural resistance of the timber.

no, but I would assume a layer of pure carbon would be a niche for very few organisms of the fungal kind, like rhizina

Perhaps a better alternative to other treatments for decay.

On a similar thread of thought, I have recently been told about the practice of burning wooden posts before installing them in the ground, as a barrier against decay. Interesting idea, has anyone come across this before? I imagine this removes or degrades the compounds in the cell walls that decay fungi feast on.

Anyone got any info. on that?