Megatron

Well I have slept on it now and feel ready to step up to the breech again

 

“What is the point of this except to stir up trouble?” That’s rich coming from you, you seem to spend all your time following me round the forum trying to undermine my advice. Don’t deny it, I may act stupid at times but it doesn’t mean I am.

 

“I have never explicitly claimed to have more experience than you so you must have inferred that from reading my posts. You are the self proclaimed "expert".” No, not explicitly but you have niggled and had a pop at a large percentage of my posts – “Self proclaimed” – I think you are mixing this up with happy customers with fixed machines and thankful owners that have had useful advice…FREE advice from forum & friendship – isn’t that what a Forum is all about???If you look at many of the posts, it is actually others recommending me, NOT the other way round!

 

I gauge success as turning a saw from a non runner in to a runner at a minimal cost to the customer and the customer coming back again 6 months later as they were happy with the job. I have no manufacturer to back me up with a database, parts lists, service manuals etc but have managed to fix everything that has come in even with my meager resources.

 

“Who's hiding?” In the past we have all had the abusive phone conversations and e-mails etc but don’t see too many people queuing up to do it face to face!

 

“With regards to tuning the modded saw, ……..A tach is of little use as factory specs will no longer be applicable.” Nearly correct but …..whatever! BTW - I recognise the line from Arboristsite!

 

Yesterday I was all for throwing in the towel on this site but I think that perhaps this isn’t what others would want and it isn’t what the Forum is about, the dealer kicking the man in the shed out!

 

So – that is it as far as I am concerned, from now on I will ignore your little digs and throw away comments, don’t even bother answering this, I am not interested and have nothing to say to you, I am too busy to bother with you and your rhetoric.

From;http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/531765-post34.html

Looks like we have two experts on this site - I couldn't have put it any better myself

If you were commenting I was one then who was the other?

You obviously have a problem with anyone giving advice which improves upon or contradicts your own and indeed difficulty accepting advice yourself. I don't see any of your advice I have undermined, merely added to or asked questions about if what you posted from my technical opinion was incorrect.

This site is a one way system for me, give good technical advice and get little in return for my time. There is no financial interest for me.

It isn't worth it and I will cease to post here with immediate effect. To anyone that has appreciated my advice; your welcome.

Here are a few useful resource links I hope some can make use of;

-Husqvarna illustrated parts lists Untick "manuals" and tick "illustrated parts lists".

-Some Stihl Tech tips newsletters

-Various manufacturers parts lookup including B+S, Honda, Homelite, Oregon etc

-Jonsered parts lists including various older models.

-Parts, service manuals and tech bulletins various

-Oregon 511ax user manual

-Introduction to cylinder porting, covers the basics.

-Spotting fake chainsaws

Whats WOT and by 4stroking do you mean the sound like a 4stroke engine hitting the limiter and bouncing back and forth on the limiter?

WOT= Wide open throttle with no load.

4stroking= Mixture is too rich to ignite every stroke so misfires. Result is a constant burbling sound. Not the same as the surging you get when a 4 stroke hits the limiter and the choke gets opened.

In my opinion this is a pretty good explanation;

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/111089.htm#post1755083

[ame]

Four stroking out of the wood, clearing up in the cut.

You should hear the saw fourstroke at the top end at WOT and then clear in the cut, a tach is a bonus to tuning if you can get hold of one........ but I am sure someone with far more experience will come up and contradict me as has been the case lately:lol:

Yeh - I love the way these big fellas hide behind their keyboards:sneaky2:

What is the point of this except to stir up trouble?

The only someone you are referring to is me. I have never explicitly claimed to have more experience than you so you must have inferred that from reading my posts. You are the self proclaimed "expert".

I objected to the rules that were unclear, with my interpretation being advertising was not allowed in posts unless the poster was a sponsor. It has been clarified and a decision made that I will respect.

By contradiction I assume you are referring to when you claimed to know "exactly" how carbs work. Thinking that was quite a bold declaration I responded with a couple of relatively simple questions to test that statement. Your response was incorrect. When notified your resonse was that you had trouble differentiating between red and blue. You were under no obligation to answer the questions put forward. Your asking for a prize implied you had little doubt about your answers, so in my opinion undermined the authenticity of the medical excuse.

Who's hiding?

With regards to tuning the modded saw, a test log imo is best. Listen carefully for the difference in noise of the engine in and out of the wood. You want the saw to fourstroke at WOT and clear up under load. Depending on the application you may want it to still fourstroke under self feeding but clear up under a heavier load. A tach is of little use as factory specs will no longer be applicable.

IPL here;

http://www.husqvarna.com/ddoc/HUSI/HUSI1999_AAaa/HUSI1999_AAaa_I9900042_.pdf

503 25 34-01

It is possible it might be NLA if your having trouble finding one. Aftermarket ones might be available? If not you can buy the whole sprocket kit from Oregon, I believe.

These points have been addressed mostly earlier in the thread if you had read it all...I see little point in this post other than trying to stir things up. Forums fine as it is

I have read the thread as I read every other that I post in. "Common sense" was the answer to the extent to which one is allowed to promote their financial interests. Which in my opinion gives quite a bit of leeway and should be outlined more in the rules, such that this situation does not arise again in the future.

The saw had a blue coil, it had the max revs engraved in to the side of it and the tach would not read beyond the set max revs so it is a LIMITED coil.

 

The saw was set lean at the top end when it came in - well in to where the rev limited coil was kicking in, the owner had said it lacked power so I retuned it for him, on a tight timescale and he is happy with it and this was around 6-8 months ago, I really dont understand where this is going???

Just pointing out that the respose given by the tech may in fact have been right. Classic example of how some dealers/techs undeservedly get a bad name.

Tuning "by ear" was the right response to give...

IMO the rules need tightening up.

I see no difference between advertising the fact you repair saws in posts and having an advertisement to the fact that you repair saws in your sig line. Which I have seen members do and I assume they were asked to remove it.

Some members have also endorsed a certain Stihl parts supplier, who as far as I am aware are not a sponsor. There are several sponsors that offer similar apart from the fact they allow you to buy Stihl parts over the internet. Which is forbidden by Stihl. They are either a Dealer themselves and when Stihl find out will get shut down or they buy from another Dealer who would find himself in hot water if Stihl were aware. This is a result of dealers instructed to only sell to end users not third parties. Not to mention the copyright infringement by uploading all the parts lists from MediaCat.

Many of you have said it would damage the site if certain members were deterred from posting. That would only occur if they did in fact have a financial interest in the site but refused to pay ad fees.

I went to my local 'approved Husqvarna' dealer as my first port of call for a service on my 372XP, asking for service works that were necessary and a check on the tuning, i asked him how he tunes and his own words were 'by ear'. Tuning by ear on a saw with a limited coil?!

THAT is why Spud serviced my saw, it was quicker (including posting time) and cheaper. Though price wasn't a factor, quality of service is. And importantly he has the trust of me, and other members of this site. My local dealer has lost mine.

That said if any of the dealers people have highly recommended in this thread were local to me then i certainly would be working with them.

 

Chris

-Firstly not all 372XP saws are rev limited, depends on the age.

-Tuning by ear as the saw comes out of a test log and/or making timed cuts are the only way to tune a saw with electronic rev limiter. Not using a tachometer. Most mechanics will just set it to the "basic" setting and leave it at that.

The saws with alloy cases with the 3002 bar mount also have an oversize stud available but very rarely is it worth installing as there is normally a lot else damaged on the case.

 

1115 664 2405 (Standard stud used on later 056 saws).

Should say 3003 not 3002. 3003 is the bar mount for the MS240 through to MS660. 3002 is MS880, 076 etc.

The replacement module for the 038 is the 0000 400 1300. Used on many of the Stihl models. I have Bosch, SEM, Ducati and IIDA 0000 400 1300 modules here all with removable HT leads.

Any chance of a picture of said module?

Helicoils won't work in plastic besides you would have to use a lathe to make a replacement stud as you likely won't find a helicoil with the DG8 threads the bar stud uses.

As Pleasant says 1127 664 2410. The replacement stud has DG9 threads. No need to re-drill the hole just screw the stud in, coat the threads with a bit of oil. Make sure it goes in squarely. Use two bar nuts tightened together to enable you to screw it in.

There are oversized studs available for other models with plastic cases e.g. MS171, MS181, MS230 etc

1123 664 2405

The saws with alloy cases with the 3002 bar mount also have an oversize stud available but very rarely is it worth installing as there is normally a lot else damaged on the case.

1115 664 2405 (Standard stud used on later 056 saws).

Ok, with my Mod hat on, I watch for people blatantly flouting the forum rules re: advertising, and to date Spud has not done this. If he does, then I'm sure someone will report the offending post to one of us and it will be dealt with as other posts have been dealt with in the past.

From; http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/627480-post10.html

If you are interested then just PM me but rough cost is £100 - £150 depending on what I find and don't forget a black unlimited coil is needed as the blue coil makes tuning a PITA.

From;http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/541897-post13.html

Just a weakness in the saw and if the idle starts playing up it is the first place to check - I have had a number of huskys in with this fault and it is often hard to find - personally I always pressure check the saw after replacing these parts.

Re - not being local - many members send their saws to me - Parcel2go only charge £6.00!

Good luck with it - the dealer should know all this and correct it - if they are good with saws...............

....you mean the dealers- like the dealers that spend a fortune on sponsoring this website, and (with all due respect) spudulike that doesn't, but touts for business on here with no apparent reciprocal return.

 

...just a thought.

....it's not simply done because it's easier. It's done because of liability and a paper trail. If you fit a new components and it fails, the garage has a come back on the manufacturer/supplier whereby a repair or fabrication by the garage if it fails, falls on the shoulders of the garage.

 

If people wen't in the habit of suing all and sundry, then you would see more engineering (or professional bodging)

No, got nothing to do with incompetence at all. As the owner of a reasonably large dealership I employ 6 full-time mechanics. All fully skilled and are quite capable of repairing rather than replacing if the options there. However as the person whos name is above the door it is my responsibility to guarantee any repair we do as best as I can. By removing as many variables as possible I can be more confident with my guarantee. Should a repair to a component fail, then potentially it could cost me thousands and the buck stops with me. If a recently fitted new components fails then I can pass that buck further up the tree of supply.

 

Furthermore- depending on your labour rate, then in most cases nowadays the additional labour to repair a component can easily outweigh the lower labour of simply and quickly fitting a new unit. Briggs and Stratton carbs are a prime example. When they cost £60 or £80+ to replace we could afford to spend an hour or two re-building them, now however they retail around the £18-£25 mark and can be changed in 15 minutes. With our labour rate of £38 per hour plus vat it doesn't take much to calculate it just isn't worth re-building them.

I agree entirely.

Yes there should be a plug there. First make sure it hasn't been pushed down the hole partially obstructing the oil flow to the bar whilst also allowing oil to escape beside the muffler. There is no valve, it is a passage that leads directly to the outlet side of the oil pump (branching off to the bar outlet). A straight hole is drilled at the factory and the little plug used to cap the end thus sending all the oil out of the bar outlet.

To replace you can use a grub screw, part number 9134 381 1230. On installation use Red Loctite 262 on the threads. Leave approx 1.5mm of the head of the screw exposed above the surface of the housing.

The leaking cap won't influence where the oil goes except on the floor! The rubber ring may be damaged or the cap itself cracked, neither of which is uncommon.

Any particular reason? I initially thought it sounded a good idea. Wished I'd thought of it.

It is difficult enough to be accurate without the measuring device being flexible. Even more so if the piston is domed. Also attempting to shear off a WD40 straw is definately not a good idea, imo. Unless the exhaust port has next to no bevel, I doubt it would be that easy. If it did shear it would just as likely get wedged in the cylinder and have to use a piece of wire etc to retrieve.

At best any of the methods mentioned in this thread (including my own) would likely only be accurate to +or- 1mm. Which as you can see for diameters only 2mm apart is a problem... The only time I would use the cocktail stick etc is if I knew the possibilites were far enough apart to distinguish.

If it is important to know the bore size, imo, forsake the base gasket and remove the cylinder. I would imagine a saw that old could do with having the carbon removed anyway.

There were three different displacements (one being designated Super);

42mm --> 43cc

44mm --> 47cc

46mm --> 51.5cc (028Super)

It sounds like you have an early version with the alloy handle, which most likely means it is the 42mm one.

The WD40 straw may work but I wouldn't recommend it...

A similar method using a cocktail/kebab stick and using the piston to indent the edge of the exhaust port roof upon the stick is a better method, imo.

Don't have the original part numbers, but these are the new part numbers I bought

 

1122 790 3603 WRAP HANDLE

1122 790 9102 HAND GUARD

9074 478 4435 (X 2) PAN HEAD SCREW 6X19

9074 478 4675 PAN HEAD SCREW 6X32.5

 

No reason why these wouldn't fit a new 660 or is 3603 not available at all any more?

 

I ordered the screws, but I do seem to remeber that you don't actually need them to swap the bars.

-3603 is no longer available.

If the OP's saw is only a couple weeks old he won't need to change the hand guard.

All he will need is;

3/4 wrap 1122 790 3611 and the 32.5 fixing screw, 9074 478 4675. Three of the original four fixing screws can be reinstalled with the new handle.

There is a kit available for older saws which don't have the modified handguard, which includes the new handguard and handlebar. It is usually cheaper to order parts in kit form from Stihl.

The large clutch cover might be a good idea also...

All very interesting, but quite frankly useless information to the OP who merely wants to clean and re kit his carb. This will probably scare him off even trying.

That was never my intention.

I see no need for me to score "points". I have no need to be seen as more knowledgable or capable. I do not seek to profit from this website. Whereas others do...

I had to on my 660 from 2008. Ended up costing quite a lot even though I got the parts from Madsen's Saw Shop in the US.

Do you know the part numbers of the chain brake you had before and what you changed it to, also the part number of the handlebar?

The cut-off is sometime in 2008, the tech note outlining the changes is dated 10.2008 (10th week, 2008) and the change was to be introduced "continuously" from then.

Damn, you have found out my weakness.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................I'm colour blind and both those little circles look the same to me:thumbdown:

Well if this is true I am sorry.

But it is rather convenient, the only possible response you could give to suggest you were not wrong.

I might also add that neither the 3/4 or full wrap for the MS660 are supposed to be supplied to the UK so a dealer would have to make a special order. Or an individual could import them from the US for example (would have to be Canada or the PNW for the full wrap). Also the last I heard Stihl were trying to do with the full wrap so it will likely become NLA everywhere soon.

Don't quite understand Stihl's policy on these things. In the UK you can get the 3/4 for the MS880 but not for the MS660, MS460 (except the Rescue saw version), MS441 or MS440.

Two types: -

 

1122 790 3603

And

1122 790 3608

 

Both are on the MS660 parts list

Those numbers/parts were superceded. The 3/4 due to a design change and the full due to restructuring of parts and part numbers.

3/4 Wrap 1122 790 3603 was replaced by 1122 790 3611. Smaller bending radius, shorter handle hose and elbow connector.

Full wrap 1122 790 3608, no longer available as just the handlebar, you have to buy the "set" which includes the additional fixtures/fittings you need to install. Previously these were purchased under a different/separate part number.

Set wrap around handlebar, part number 1122 007 1003.

How old is the saw? You may need to change the chain brake handle.

Blue - full load semi fixed jet for high speed running

No, blue is the part-load fixed jet. Opens into the venturi between the idle jets and the main jet and prevents the mixture becoming over lean when at part throttle. The low pressure causes additional fuel to be drawn off and enrich the fuel-air mixture, in response to the throttle shutter position. It does have a one way valve. Cannot be romoved.

Red - Part load valve jet - controls low speed running and has a built in one way valve to stop pressure changes in the carb throat effecting the fuel in the diaphragm part of the carb.

No, red is the full-load semi-fixed jet. At full load a defined quantity of fuel (~80% when H screw at one turn out) will flow through it and into the venturi via the main jet, irrespective of the position of the H screw. Thus, compared to a carb with no full-load semi-fixed jet, the change in the composition of the mixture for a given adjustment of the H screw is far less. These can be changed out and various sizes available, high altitude etc.

The carb is dependent on the main jet

All carbs are dependent on the main jet... in the sense they can't be independent!

Well the idle system is dependent on the main jet system. The idle system branches off after the H screw. Altering the idle fuel volume via the L screw does not result in a change to the overall fuel volume.

Carbs are easy to strip down but there again I have done hundreds and know EXACTLY how they work

That's quite a statement...

3 simple questions for you then, the carb is from a 1122 series Stihl;

-What is circled red and what is its purpose?

-What is circled blue and what is its purpose?

-Is the idle system dependent or independent of the main jet system?