dgcunningham

Not read all the thread, so someone may have mentioned this before.

Would it be possible to install an in-water filter down-stream of the works and over pump the water? Something as simple as an inflatable dam with a terram barrier and a 6" pump with adequate bagging?

I know that BiFOR relatively recently used a heli to lift in all the infrastructure towers to establish the lab in the woods. They used a Swiss company to do it. I believe they tried a sea-king chopper but it wasn't accurate enough.

Might be worth contacting BiFOR if the heli is still an option?

David

Try Cornthwaites in Preston- they have a rope access team and are always in demand for rail work.

Graft cuttings from the crown onto the stem below the mechanical damage. If they take reduce the tree to below the sever wound and start again.

Hi Stephen,

How many places available do you have for the Consultancy course please?

Kind regards,

David

As I understand it, the timber is going for biomass.

The jury finds the defendant guilty your honour.

Shut these guys down before the kill someone

I think it comes down to being 'employed'. If its just a group of guys getting their 'kicks' with chainsaws in a woodland they own then maybe no problem, maybe misadventure if something goes wrong. If they are employed in any sense of the word, subby, freelance direct etc, the employer has a 'care of duty' to those they employ and I expect that part of that is trying to manage 'foreseeable risk' within a context of best practice.

Employing people to carry out an operation without training or PPE might be considered negligent to this 'duty of care'?

Also, I don't expect they have obtained a felling license for their operation?

Hi Guys

 

I'm looking to ask you all as professionals what it is you look for in the next generation.

 

Obvious answers are tickets, underpinning knowledge and work ethic... but...

 

I'm trying to understand how to best prepare future students/workers for our ever changing industry and I figure there's no better place then Arbtalk to find out what each part of our industry is looking for.

 

So, if you could spare a minute of your time please state the work you do and what exactly you'd like your new apprentices to be able to do and what you think they should know.

 

I look forward to your reply

 

Many thanks

 

Martyn - MWArb

I work in Rail and Utility as a manager

College leavers need to be certified with an appropriate suite of tickets to cover this work. Able to follow stringent H&S and legislation and familiar with BS:3998 (Competent with a c rather than a C)

My suggestion would be consult with UAG to structure an appropriate apprenticeship course to provide guys who can at least put boots on the ground, the rest of the training the private sector will do.

For the domestic workers out there I expect practical ability is more important than having a full range of CS units etc- get a gym?

My suggestion would be to refine your output to cater for these quite different avenues. My further suggestion to a college would be, go where the money is and form a partnership with one of the big principle contractors to develop apprentices. Once you have secured that, start to offer realistic wages to your tutor positions and you may attract the right people who can deliver this.

*I expect what the future.....

I would say- more In depth knowledge in legal H&S requirements & business development. Explain what a Health & Safety policy is and why we have them.

A expect the future will require:

Plant Pathology scientists

Drone developers and technicians (why send a man up when you can send a drone?)

Try these guys

News - TreeStation

David

DG, fair balls to you for posting your price breakdown but I would still say your massively too cheap. As stated earlier I don't do arb work but would think something like following:

Day one

Climber: £150

Rescue climber/Groundie: £150

Groundie with chipper: £240 (8 hours at £30 p/h)

 

Day two

Groundie with truck: £240 (8 hours@£30p/h as lot of timber to go back to yard)

Groundie: £120

 

Total labour: £900

Mark up 40% POR: £360 (covers your time looking job (and the jobs you didn't get) plus all other expenses and leeway for f@ck up)

Total: £1260 plus VAT

 

And I'd say that's still at the sharp end. If you can get cheaper labour then fair enough but you should still be charging market rate, in fact there's argument that if climber getting paid £150 then your costs should reflect £200

 

I always price work so that labour covered, management time covered, additional costs covered then finally additional profit to go back into bank as I run a business to make money. Always should be increasing bank balance after each job, even if for no other reason than to cover breakages and replace kit

Hi Wasp Wood,

No balls really, just how it is- I price work for the railway and that's usually around £180/man/day so wouldn't expect domestic tree firms are above that. I expect most guys think around the £150/day figure. The example given was just a suggestion to the original post author on how to build a quote and consider the risk assessment- then possibly tweek the options when the quote is accepted to increase profit potential. Just a strategy really.

How I would do it in reality is get a subby to give me a price on doing it, add 30% and submit that to the client. Once they accept it, pass it onto the subby who priced it and bank my 30%- nice and bonny.

Alternatively, bid 1K from a pic and hope I can turn up with a 66 and drop it in a oner.

Like most guys have rightly said on here- can't really price from a picture

To price:

Day one- 3 man team plus chipper, get all the chipping done and start to bring down the timber- £510

Day two- Two man team to fell the stick and ferry the wood back to site- £300

Total- £810 (plus VAT if registered)

Working at Height risk Assessment-

Work should be planned, organised and supervised and undertaken in line with the following hierarchy (or something like):

• Avoid the risks of working at height by achieving the desired results from the ground.

• Achieve the desired results using pole pruners, pole saws and pole mounted chainsaws.

• Minor (small diameter) pruning works and hedge trimming operations may be undertaken from a secured ladder, steps or purpose built platform.

• Access the crown of the tree using a MEWP.

• Access the crown of the tree using approved climbing and work positioning techniques.

Job has £810 on it, explore your options for undertaking the removal following the above hierarchy. Consult Approved Codes of Practice and Industry Guidance to firm up your planning.

Fingers crossed you make some profit.

I worked for £20K for something similar.

I can vouch for that Leonie,

found a load on the roadside Sorbus intermedia opposite the Plough Pub between Grindleford and Hathersage. Collected a few for the specimen collection in the freezer (on the shelf below the oven chips). Been a good year for them.

Can't help you with additional literature above what you have already listed. Possible PHD subject?

Don't industrial work access operative use fall a arrest harness? We do not, our harness are not suited to taking a fall. Also if 2 ropes are pulled through same fork/anchor point you effectively still only have one anchor point if this fails 2 or 1 rope it will not matter.

 

The benefit for me of 2 ropes would be improved positioning, after all in tree work positioning is everything.

Hi Mark, really good points and completely understand what you mean by 'effectively' only having 1 anchor. But what I would suggest is that 'technically' you have two separate anchors with having two separate ropes tied off at the base. Just a point of discussion really but I was thinking of the advantage this might offer in the true sense of a safety line- that being if you primary line was to 'fail' you would have a second line in place.

I've been office based for a year and thinking about going back on the tools- guess I'm a bit nervous about the whole thing.

I'm certainly not speaking from experience here as I have never climbed on SRT for tree work- always previously climbed DRT but wanted to ask a question.

Does SRT make it more feasible to work alongside a parallel safety line, say with an ASAP on a sling offset from your position? Much like Rope Access guys do? Couldn't you, in effect, once you have set your throw line just pull through 2 ropes instead of 1 and separately anchor them to the base of the tree?

EN 363 for both Work Positioning and Rope Access have a requirement for separate working lines and safety lines. Couldn't this be a way of ensuring compliance without it being too obstructive to the work? Anyone had any experience of this?

Hi AJ, David here- remember we met at Barnsley when you did the night shift for 4 Counties?

Below is the link to the Rulebook Handbooks, only certain ones are relevant

Error Book Handbooks&FolderCTID=0x01200060B274261602B94B84F5B3E1E95DE5C8

You will need to download Handbooks 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 16 and 17.

Yes, JLTree is correct that it is the intention of NR to change the whole safety critical staff hierarchy and there is talk of this being introduced in October '14. My understanding is that this isn't happening. I'm lead to believe that they will be trailing this in Anglia throughout '15 and if the trials go well it may be introduced at some point in '15 or '16. Remember, this is the Rail and nothing is done quickly!

I suppose the real question is 'Would it be worth sitting the COSS?'

Well, I'm sure your aware there is a Mentoring period you must first go through prior to being assessed and in my experience this is where it mostly falls down. You have to get your log book entries in before you go for assessment. It is not unforeseeable that I could help you gain these log book entries, I know lots of COSS's and I'm sure we could get you in on a couple of shifts to be mentored. When I'm doing it myself, I expect I could do it. I used to mentor a lot back in the early 2000s when mentoring wasn't mandatory but when certain guys need a hand I was used- so I can't be that bad at it.

The main thing is this, there is a spending surge on the rail at the moment and de-veg and the LNE are in the centre of it. NR has, through under spending over the last 3 years, lost its rail certified sub-contract workforce and at the same time made it more difficult to be certified. COSS certified personnel are the lynchpin to any operation or outfit working on the railway and still a requirement. COSS is hard to get (NR wants it that way, it doesn't like the whole subcontractor setup but until it commits to long term regional contracts they will have to lump it), but worth it.

Hope that helps?

PS. Remember, if you get COSS you don't have to be exclusively a vegetation COSS bashing trees out, you can get work signing up with agencies and earn a good (better) living walking ecologists/surveyors around the rail routes of the UK for £10-£13/hour- Lovely stuff.

Well taking into account that i dont have said fdsc yet you point is moot!

Good point

Brought a tear to my eye. Beautiful.

My experience of it all so far is not encouraging at all.

How complicated do they want to make it.

 

I had to ask for information on how to enrol as id heard nothing, turns out its all on 'my bloom' page, my what? figured that out only to be referred to Uni of Lanc to fill more **** out and register with them. I've finally enrolled (i think) and waiting yet again for something to happen.

So to date i now have two different logins with different organisations and respective email addresses. And i get the occasional email to my private mail as well. I can see important info getting lost here.

Deal with it. An fdsc makes you eligible to undertake a role as the person who can deal with it. Deal with it

All the tutors are different. Some reply to emails the same day, others can take several days. It also depends on their workload.

 

The online forum for students to communicate to tutors often remains unchecked for 1-2 weeks. There are also mistakes and issues that lead to critical information being released close to deadlines, or feedback not being suitable, or not enough information being provided to complete a module properly.

 

The class tutors do understand, however, and do their very best to accommodate your needs regarding extensions, support or other issues.

 

I think the key is to be in a year where all the students are proactive in communicating with each other, when this happens, it makes life easier!

In my experience this might go some way to preparing you to industry- tendering for multi 100k jobs in 12 hours and not having had time to visit site. As it should be

Just as an added bit of info,

If something does go wrong with the work in relation to the rail expect to be visited by the RIO (Rail Incident Officer) this is the man you do not want to see walking towards you. It is his job to coordinate the emergency services and collect evidence. Things have gone very wrong at this point and things will be well beyond your control. Better to keep your mouth shut at this point and do as you're told.

Above him are the people who carry the Queens Seal.

Heres one for you:

 

got a conifer hedge to top thats near a rail line, doing the work out of a cherry picker so can get up and get a pull line nice and high in the tops, will be about 6ft of top out of each tree i reckon. Ive emailed network rail last week but my email was passed on and not got any further contact. Where do i stand? judging by your post, i can get well on with it if i am confident i will not interfere with the lines, which I'm fairly sure i won't, especially with a pull line which i can attach to a vehicle for good measure.

Hi Rob,

Firstly- I would mention your intent to your insurance company and get their advice.

Can you guarantee the operation you are undertaking will 'Fail-to-Safe'? What I mean by that is- if everything goes wrong in your activity, will the worse case scenario affect the safe running of trains? My definition of safe running of trains could include the derailment of a high speed train full of commuters.

In reality this is what happens-

A train driver is spooked by seeing the top of a conifer being felled out next to a line and he contacts the signal box.

Signal man contacts the Transport police and the MOM (Mobile Operations Manager) for the area and requests investigation. Quite possibly they put a temporary speed restriction on the line.

The Transport Police and MOM pay you a visit.

They will RA the situation and if necessary they will shut you down.

The trick is firstly- don't spook the train driver- maybe dismantle the tree in hand held pieces.

secondly- make it fail to safe.

That is how understand the situation.

(PS- sounds like the line might have OHLE 25kv if your on the West Coast Main line. How far away are you from this equipment?)

((PPS- if it OHLE I would think long and hard about undertaking this job and certainly want to RA taking a MEWP and any rope anywhere near it)

Hope that helps