swoollard

to put what i said into context, stephen hawking could pass a nd arb with ease, but do you reckon he could drag brash/climb???

He'd have to be able to to pass an ND. Modern medicine eh?! And me thinking he was confined to a wheel chair!

Sorry. Meant to add that I, and no doubt most instructors, are not so naive that we think that every student turnrd out by colleges will be a fantastic arborist, or even go on to work in the industry. We (the instructors) can only work with what we have Silk purses, etc. The big decisions are all well out of our hands.

Yes, I vented my spleen. Maybe a little hastily at times. It was my opinion and I should have stated that as many do when giving it on here. There is a vast gulf between opinion and fact. What riles me is when members give opinion on something they generally have no real concept of, and seem intent on having everyone take it as the gospel. The glorified gardening quote was taken from this site. I had eleven years of misinformed customers thinking along the lines of us as glorified gardeners, so that isn't my opinion. I definatly think that students learn huge ammounts at work. Largely practical. There is much ,much more to arboriculture than climbing and cutting though. I think that many firms would find it hard to train someone from scratch when they are in a working environment and on a deadline. I have done it myself. Probably easier in a larger firm where the slower pace can be absorbed better. Students come on here to pick up leads for assignments, which I am all for, but their homework is hardly being done for them (1000 words?) I did say that we encourage this forums use and that I think some of the stuff is vey useful to students and professionals alike. Anyway, a bit of a red mist last night. Explanation and olive branch offered.

Oh yes. This college doesn't hate arbtalk. In fact we encourage its use where appropriate

Sorry I haven't been on here to support you on this one Gimmer. I have too much of a life to spend all my time on here. (Not a dig at you Gimmer.) Thanks to all those who recognised that the original thread was an advertisement, and to those who were encouraging and even sympathetic of what goes on at colleges. The other bile was what often passes for the norm on here by people who appear to claim to be an expert on everything. Those that are obsessed with the money are possibly the same who post " well, if that's what the cutomer wants," or "we've all got to earn a living mate" when someone owns up to doing some poor work. At least students are taught good work from bad and some work ethics. Who is worst-the pikey who doesn't know any better, or the guy who does but does it anyway. We also teach them this state of the art technique where you can climb on a rope with no friction hitches. Wow. Amazing. Too many people on here giving opinion on something they know nothing about. A technician's role is not wiping students's arses as was implied earlier. As for them thinking they are going to earn mega bucks when they leave, it is implied on this forum that they might turnover 100k p/a for glorified gardening. A lot of people on here think they are educating student members. In reality they are teaching them bad habits/techniques they aren't nearly ready for. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of useful stuff on here e.g Reg Coates, but for some of you guys to think you are helping students, especially when you slag off colleges, qualifications and assignments has quite he opposite effect. Oh. By the way I'm a lecturer if you hadn't guessed. Fifteen years experience before I came to teach. How do you start a poll on here? it should be entitled " anyone else alarmed by the ammount of crap spurted on here and the apathy about rubbish tree work as long as the price is right? Rant over, etc.

You can get a top handle saw caught in a cut section as easily as a big saw. Surely this is why tool attachment points are on rip stitching so they come away if the worst happens? Clipping a saw into any other point that it's not designed for has to be a bad idea.

I teach guys to climb at a college for ND and NC, but also for CS38 (with good results I might add!) Having watched newbies struggle with one end and a lanyard last year, I have introduced two ends. Some think of it as a bit old school, but for people learning to climb form scratch it is much easier and quicker. If they can't roll on to the limb or have their feet supported then they have to faff around bringing in the lanyard to the front d's to avoid hanging off their side D's. This can lead to confusion early on and essentially twice as many change overs needed. We introduce lanyards when they are more profficient, and I'm certainly not dismissing the technique-I used both when cimbing full time. We just show them all options and obviously the need for and various methods of two anchor points when cutting. Two ends is a viable technique, but in my opinion a bit heavy and cumbersome for working, but quicker for reaching top anchor. Remember, these new guys have to do everything to the letter of the law

all learning is good. Understanding the history of the top handled saw will give you an appreciation of it's refinement, this in turn will make you feel more privileged holding its sleek black handle. With this new found excitement, you will go forth and scratch it up with the best of em.

Couldn't have put it better myself. And I wrote the assignment!

As promised earlier, details of climbing the tallest trees in the UK from the horses mouth.

I'm second year tutor for the ND Arb and For at Sparsholt College, Hants. My colleague and trip organiser is Mark Tansley, the course tutor. We were joined by Justin Palmer from Safety Technology Ltd, Chris Hunter from Urban Forestry (Bury St Edmonds) and Lukasz Warzecha, and fortunate enough to be sponsered by Stihl throughout our trip. It was Lukasz's baby really. He works for Frontier Forestry in Edinburgh, but is an award winning photographer www.lwimages.co.uk/talltrees The images may not be on here yet, but should be soon. We climbed and measured three trees, but weren't permitted to climb Dughall Mor which was previously regarded as the country's tallest.

It was an unbelievable experience. One which I feel privileged to have been a part of.

Articles to appear in trade press soon, and more photos to follow- Watch this space!

Anyway, the results are:

· Douglas Fir at the Stronardron Estate, Argyll

o No accurate ground based measurements possible due to time constraints & tree location

o Climbed measurement from tip to highest point at base was 63.79m

· Douglas Fir at The Hermitage, Dunkeld, Perthshire.

o 2 x ground based measurements at 60.95m & 60.68m

o Climbed measurement from tip to highest point at base was 61.31m

· Grand Fir at Diana’s Grove, Blair Castle, Perthshire

o 3 x ground based measurements at 62.32m, 62.60m & 62.47 – other measurements were taken but were discounted due to being unable to clearly sight the stem base

o Climbed measurement from tip to highest point at base was 62.70m

· Douglas Fir (“Dughall Mor”) at Reelig Glen, Inverness

o 10 x ground based measurements from a range of positions:

§ Position 1 – 61.68 & 61.46

§ Position 2 – 63.15 & 62.64

§ Position 3 – 60.13 & 58.62 – Measurements discounted due to site – unable to confidently see the tree tip

§ Position 4 – 61.53 & 62.21

§ Position 5 – 62.07 & 61.91

o Average height taken from positions 1,2,4 & 5 – 62.02m

I therefore advise that we have a new tallest tree in the UK – the Stronardron Douglas Fir in Argyll owned by Mr Robin Creelman as well as a

2nd place tree in the form of the Grand Fir at Blair Castle!

Hello All,

I was one of the climbers lucky enough to be involved in this. Proper thread to appear with photos later today

Hi Abby,

Don't want to get involved in the debate about the intneded use for Kongs, but thought you might like to know of a recent experience using them on a single line. They must be backed up-the more the better as far as I'm concerned now however time consuming. I guarantee the rope can come out of the ascenders, and hanging upside down by a Pantin can be a bit hairy!

Cheers, hope that's of some yse to you