Jump to content

LogDesperate

Member
  • Content Count

    21
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by LogDesperate

  1. Thanks to everyone’s input and comments in this thread Sorry , it looks like I have upset some people along the journey, was not my intention Thanks to those who could see where I was coming from and issues trying to highlight , for their support. To others , still have not figured out what those points were , well , thanks for participating still , whether I agreed with your opinions or not. Admins , you feel free to delete my account , so that will hopefully help dismiss the “ troll “ theory . Bye and all the best
  2. That is very reassuring ... Oh sure, " customer from hell " , right ?
  3. Guessing you meant " wind up " , I certainly am not " wined up " ! Well, perhaps a little in the evenings Wow After all my posts ( because I really have nothing better to do with my time ) , conspiracy theory continues !
  4. I am in Essex ( and have been for past 30 years ) Reason I said Hertfordshire, because we are near enough to its border and technically London as well , I think enough clues there so you can work out roughly where approximate area is
  5. Woodworks , just looked at your website . OMG™ ! Look at them beauties , that’s what I call logs I might move to Devon , can I come and live in your barn ? Essex boys and girls , post your log business websites or pictures please ! ( And Hertfordshire ! )
  6. Really? Interpretation? LoL I thought principle is the same . You have goods , money changes hands , goods are SOLD You can call yourself , merchant , supplier , dealer , seller , flogger or whatever else. Principle is the same , and same ethics should apply , if you have pride in the work you do or products you sell.
  7. You are not the only one , on the suprise front ! Hence this thread
  8. Steve ? I stated this few times already , I am not saying log suppliers all here or elsewhere are the same , maybe not even single one of the official registered users / posters here. Not my intention to “ brand “ all the same. I already know many fantastic people here that have integrity and ethics , I can tell The “ cowboy “ types are most likely mainly the lurker ones , which you don’t hear a peep out of , but I am sure they are around here and watching / reading ! By the way , I don’t and have not always bought my logs from the “beer money unemployed chancers “ . I actually don’t always go for the absolute possible cheapest , “ cheap is dear “ Some of my purchases were made with people who had web presence , what appeared to be a reputable and reliable business , with similar results. And where does it end anyway ? Can’t buy the cheapest , don’t buy medium priced . Do we always have to assume it is ALWAYS the most expensive one that we must buy if we want quality ? And even with that is there a guarantee ? I think it all boils down to ethics. I want what is advertised / promised . I don’t mind crap , if price is right , sure , why not ? It is my decision to make . Tell me it’s crap leylandii for proper cubic meter , seasoned for 2 years , £20 a cube delivered , I might be tempted !
  9. Sure , I can have “ intelligent “ debates / discussions with every single one of the suppliers I had pleasure of making their acquaintances , every time I had a thing or two to say about the quality and/or quantity of the goods , that would probably earn me eventually the claim to fame 3 minute window in Crimestoppers ! I have done my fair share of the complaints, with few of the suppliers in the past , in me youth , thankfully without becoming that statistic. Now , the reason I am here “ bitching “ , as you very delicately put , I believe words are mightier than the sword ! Trying to put my opinions across and share my experiences here within the biggest platform I could think of, perhaps at least make some of the culprits understand and change their ways , who think the customers are mugs , is that a bad thing ? “ Bitching “ here , my voice ( and others ) is heard little louder and to a wider audience .
  10. Call me TK Gary ! I am not that hard to please
  11. No , I did not. My blood pressure is more important to me than few scaffold plank " logs " If the whole load was like that of course , that is another story. However , suffice to say he did not get my business again. Besides , I could just picture how that complaint phone call would have gone. Me .. " Hello Mr Log Supplier , I have found some Scaffold Tower Plank Logs in with me load , are they supposed to be in there or accidentally fell in to the bag while you were travelling near a building site perhaps ? " Him .. " Well , ya did not ask , I did not feel the need to tell you , they are good hardwood , will burn great mate , goodbye "
  12. Don’t get me wrong , there is nothing puts a bigger grin on me face than a cheeky softwood log or two , in what is sold as a hardwood only load ! I welcome it In fact , I will tell you what is even cheekier . Few years back I ordered a “ load “ , when I found out there were at least 20 – 30 scaffold tower plank pieces cut up and included kindly in with my load , I said to myself I said “ Now , that IS Cheeky that is ! “ and burst out laughing so hard, crapped me pants in the process
  13. I prefer TK instead of John , that’s what my friends call me ! To all who think I was / am a potential Kiln dried crate importer to UK , do you really think I would come in here to try to sell ? Especially if I was trying to convert end users , if this is what you think I am trying to do with my posts ? I would target End user forums for that , plenty of them online , and tell them how great my product is , come buy them from me or here is a distributor. OR , I would come here , as I did and just say , “ People , we are exporters from such and such , this is the product , this is the price , how many crates can we put you down for sir ? “ Where am I ? OK, so , that was one small delicate area , I was not entirely sure how to respond to , hence delay , I was not ignoring it. To be perfectly honest it is irrelevant which area I am in , I have been expressing truthful opinions and experiences that I have had. I have not said I have exhausted ALL my options in my area , so yes , probably still more I should / could try . It is just the fact that so many not so great experiences in a row , for what should be a simple purchase , on a product that really should not be complicated , nor over the top expensive , I guess I felt the need to come here and vent little and share , to see what the industry is thinking as well. Also , it is not just about me , “ saving the poor soul and help him out issue “ necessarily . I already guessed there are problems in this industry , as far as quality and quantity is concerned , which some of your members acknowledge and confirm. Between so many of you , majority of your industry probably actively participate in these forums , can you not get together / put heads together and come up with some sort of solution to at least volume issue ? Someone mentioned, according to Trading Standards , selling / using cubic metre measurement is a no no , but to use “ loads “ as a unit of measurement . I am not disputing this , but can someone provide some links as I have had a quick look but unable to verify this? If true , perhaps it is a strange old British law that stayed from middle ages like .. “ You’re not allowed to be drunk in a pub “ ? If this is the case , it needs to be challenged and changed “ thou shall not sell logs by universally accepted volume measurements , thus let it be sold as a load “ ?? Here is an idea for example , if indeed metric measurements are a no go ( research will need to be done on this still ) , come up with a universally accepted new measurements for log industry , call it “ dumpy crate “ or whatever you wish , which had specific measurements , fill it loose to exact level , let that be known as the measurement , so everyone would know what it is when / if I order 2 of those , I know what loose total volume is , when people order it in up in Highlands , it is same unit as in Wales or in central London I don’t know , or something , its just the bag or load etc methods just not cutting it. I understand , yes, it is a physically demanding job , you need machinery , you need space . Well every business has its challenges and difficulties. And British produce , does it really have to be so expensive , compared to imports ? Take tree surgery for example , logs are your by product , you have already charged accordingly for felling etc. I had one tree felled and the bill was good few hundred a while back So , technically you have the logs for free , if it is a decent tree , one you can sell the logs , what do you need to do , cut / split and dry ( whatever method ) You are saying you cannot compete with these “ exporters “ , who need to BUY the logs , do same processes as you need to do , cut / split , dry , not to mention supply them in crates ( which would cost a few quid as well ) , then SHIP them from hundreds ( thousands ? ) miles away ( would have thought big cost ) and sell them cheaper than here ? Sure even if the labour was free where they are coming from , how long does it take for you to produce 1 cubic metre logs , with all the Pro equipment you guys have 15 minutes flat or less ? I know I can probably do it in around 2 hours with my laughable but capable ! equipment So labour does not really come up to much surely. So , have fair but competitive price , supply fair volume and quality , have satisfied customers and hold on to them , that way un-satisfied frustrated buyers don’t have the need to look elsewhere . I thought it is better to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, includes pinpoint location where I am from. But anyway , I am from sunny Essex I better Log-Off for now . See what I did there ? Was that a pun ?!
  14. Gary , oh Gary , you were quick to post in this thread saying got bored and did not bother to read my first post in its entirety , you come back with a sarcastic second post ( most probably not even read others either ) , but I still like you ! You are quick to post but alas with little to no substance I have four words for you . “ Ignorance is a bliss “ … no offense . Which applies to few others here as well , who appear to be in denial Please read all my posts , and you will probably get the answer you are looking for. But sure , if I were to do log trade , I would do it with pride , ethics , supply quality products which are fit for purpose and fair quantity / volume . If you are a log seller or whatever business you are in , you do what you are good ( hopefully you are ) at , and I will do what I am good at , I have no intention of starting log trade and steal business from you guys !
  15. Looks what you guys did to me , now I have the boss key ready at work sneak and send replies , I think I am hooked ! Thanks for the compliment! I don't think I am that clever Lots of equipment ?? I have a log splitter that cost me £150 , 8 years ago , Electric Bosch Chainsaw , £50 I think it was , couple of axes, I swear that is it OK, I feel I need to come clean on the 20 years thing, maybe it is more like 17 , and out of those 17 years perhaps 2 or 3 years I did not need to buy logs in . So now , does that make it little more plausible? I can assure you it is not a wind up … I have 50-60 hour work weeks , trust me I would not ordinarily bother with this kind of stuff , but I hoped you guys could see the frustration and listen to a buyers experiences and perhaps a find a common ground within community to address and resolve , since I think this is the biggest platform in UK that Tree Surgery and related product suppliers gather and discuss , what better place is there ? Because I like to sit by the stove to have a few cigarettes in the evenings , open the door let the smoke sucked up so room doesn’t stink , poke and admire the fire at the same time ! I can do without the ones spit in my eye. “I have had oak, ash, sycamore alĺ spit. You just cannot guarantee it “ Have you tried “ seasoning “ them properly ? Those varieties should not spit , if properly dry. I suppose any log will spit , I am not referring to spitting as in once in a blue moon. Have you tried burning chestnut or pine .. ?
  16. Sure, I can . I have in the past , still do occasionally when I either get free wood ( from a friend who has some sort off right of way access to a woodland etc. I don’t really know the ins and outs ) , he gets the wood as an agreement , when they come to do the management / coppicing. My logs do come out perfectly fine yes, even with my Mickey Mouse hydraulic splitter and my 20 quid log / saw horse and my trusty Bosh Electric chainsaw ! , end result would put the logs I received in last delivery and some others in the past to shame, produced by the professionals in the trade. Certainly won’t pay the same amount for cordwood , as some suppliers appear to charge same or very similar money for same volume as split and “ seasoned “ ( perhaps it is much easier to distinguish tree species when in cord form , so it is more difficult to deceive , compared to the split “ mixed “ loads , where anything seems to go , my theory anyway ) My question to you is this. Why produce own logs? I do it occasionally for fun / bit of exercise, and for the love of logs ! I have no intention of turning my back garden to a full blown log yard / barn setup to dry 10 -15 m3 minimum , to process and store ( for 2 years minimum proper seasoning ) , I don’t think it would sit well with me better half. If I am ordering and paying for cut/split/seasoned logs , which are supposed to be ready to burn , this is what I expect to receive , or is this such an unreasonable expectation ? As I stated few times , it is mission impossible to get accurate measurements , as far as the volume is considered , until after it is dumped on your drive and once stacked. I had deliveries in the past , they would not even mention the size of what the vehicle it will turn up is , it was just called a “ load “ ! So I can’t argue with someone over an unknown measurement he promised to deliver and I can’t sit and cry about it afterwards. A “ load “ can simply mean 10 logs ? Well , it is a load , isn't it , can you argue ? The quality of the logs , likewise , you need to handle them , see what is what when you are stacking ( that is if you know little bit about wood ) , the dryness , well , no supplier will hang about if you say , wait let me split couple of of your logs before I pay you , see if they are worthy . Fist fight ? £100 - £200 and thereabouts is not worth the aggro and high blood pressure , if they are crap unseasoned logs , they will sit in one corner and I will use them up eventually. They just don’t get my business again , but I suppose suppliers such as those would not rely on repeat customers I would presume.
  17. I am so sorry to have bored you Gary ! I don’t need my logs laser-cut ! I just need them to be within reason , size-wise reasonably uniform , if I am quoted 25cm length , would you not say 30cm + is a bit much ? I can even fit 30cm long ones in my Morso , if they are not absurdly wide , it is those 25 - 30cm cube ( approx ) giants are the ones which are the problem ! If I did not have access to my hydraulic 5T log splitter ( Mickey Mouse one I know , I have not come here to show off me equipment ! ) , I would probably throw them in my green compost bin. Especially ones with knots , not to be attempted with an axe , let us not be heroes ! I am close to 50 , although reasonably fit , would probably not bother with them. I have re-split , I would say , over half of the lot of my last delivery. Is that really something to be expected of 25cm size “ standard “ logs ? What if the customer was 80 year old , heart attack when he sees the logs ?
  18. Hi Thanks for the link . I am aware of calculations on loose vs stacked Apologies to the others for jumping from literally from the top of the posts , right down to the bottom , which is the same person. I intended to do it systematically from top to bottom ( not sure how long it will take me ) , as there are some posts in between I really would like to respond to ! The point is not knowing what is in these loose “loads “ or various size bags , this is one of the BIGGEST problems , it is not good enough , please refer to my first post You see it in a crate , delivered on the lorry , tightly stacked , volume calculation is easy and transparent. You can work out the volume in 30 seconds flat. This is not so easy to do it with bags or pickup “ loads “ as majority ( in my area anyway ) will not give you clear-cut answers how full these will turn up , so you cannot convert an unknown amount to solid stacked volume figure , untill they are dumped on your drive and once you have stacked them in your log-store.
  19. Maybe I should clarify , the only reason I mentioned kiln dried imports , because I assumed they were the only ones they you see nowadays all over the internet , also from what I have been reading , that was the conclusion I came to I am more than happy to buy British , in a similar way produced quality / price. I am not after the “ cheapest “ stuff as some suggested . Stacked crates are appealing because of volume calculations , also knowing exact type of wood etc. Due to my ongoing bad experiences , frankly I am not willing to take more chances on these unknown quality / quantity “ loads “ Anyone here supply similar crate setup , genuine British produce with national delivery ? If there is not a massive price difference , sure, why not ? I also did say , I don’t even care if they are kiln dried , prefer proper air dried . I saw the imported stuff as absolute last resort as an option .
  20. Thread is on fire !! Wow , 85 replies in one day , was not expecting that When I saw there were like 70 posts today at a quick glance , I had to leave work early to read the replies and start sending some responses , logs are more important than work ! Some supporters , some blamers , some suggesting give up on logs and use oil , in a FireWood forum ! , nice mix , I like it To be perfectly honest with you , when I said it would probably my last post , I thought I would mainly get the harsh negative responses , I did not really want to get into too much pointless debates. However , seeing there are some of your fellow community members even themselves acknowledging there are some issues and room for improvement , I also felt I owe it to them to come and thank them for understanding the points I was trying to highlight , I won’t name names thank X , thank Y , this it not Oscars , I think we know who they are. If you guys are up for an open and honest debate , so am I ! I understand I walked into the Lions Den and tried to make some points that some of you did not like , I also understand the comradery of course , I get it , me , being the “ outsider “ , coming here criticising the log industry and its ways , just who do I think I am ! I can honestly say , my first post was my true experiences this year alone , but in a nutshell reflects similarities going back almost 20 years . Either quantity or quality issues , occasionally both , such as my latest purchase. I never implied every single log supplier is the same , I am sure there lots of Diamond Geezers and Gals out there providing high quality logs at decent prices , perhaps it is only my misfortune that I have yet to make their acquaintance , in my area , yet. I will read some more of the posts ( only read around 40 so far quickly ) , gather my thoughts and start posting some responses back .
  21. Not an arborist or log producer / supplier here , simply a consumer ( or certainly not a Kiln Dried crate exporter to the UK , impression which you may get after reading ) First post , most likely will be the last Below are just my experiences , not indented to come here and flame , just wanted to share. Important : Please do not take offence I will tell you why I will be buying kiln dried “ EU “ imported kiln dried crates , which seem to have gained popularity recent years and my reasons behind it but I have a feeling many people in the same boat as me I have been burning logs for past 20 years and I am sad to tell you I think with one single exception, I have never bought logs from the same supplier, as a repeat customer. Pretty much every purchase , some sort of bitter experience , to the point it has become an ordeal to look again when the log store runs low , what new sellers have emerged in the area and keep fingers crossed they will supply what they promise Few recent purchases below and disappointments . . Which reflect not only this years disappointments but 20 years of log buying as a whole. I built my own log store which takes exactly 4 m3 stacked volume logs . First enquiry of the season was with the only second attempt to buy from same local log supplier ( the first was a bit of disappointment due to volume issues and quality of the logs but I hoped for the best and was willing to give another try in view of supporting “ local “ businesses ) Even though making the point very clear 4 m3 stacked volume of logs is what is required and paying for it ( £275 I believe he charged ) end result what I got once logs were delivered and stacked , 2.5 m3.. Now I understand loose volume is difficult to gauge vs stacked , surely there is a big discrepancy here ? I was not naive to expect 4m3 exact as it was ordered ( although it would have been a refreshing change ) but certainly not 40% less Volumes offered / described by majority of log suppliers are vague , misleading and borderline amusing. Scoop load , Pickup load , tonne bag , builders bag , bulk bag , dumpy bag , trailer load , transit load , list goes on ...... We are in 21st century , people expect little more clarity here , want to know what they are getting exactly and how much of it . We are not familiar with what exact volume of your pickup truck load , even if we did know , it is unclear whether it will be delivered heaped , level or under , so clearly a pointless measurement unit. And the wonderful bags , same again , rather than vague description of bag types , we need to know volume , those bags vary in sizes 50cm , 70cm , 90cm ? Up in the air , likewise full bag , filled up to 3 quarters full , what is it ? When is he last time you walked into a petrol station and filled your car with non-universal unit of a bucket which its size differ from station to station ? How difficult is it to quote reasonably accurate volume in universally accepted measurement rather than above? Had numerous suppliers claim 90cm x 90cm x 90cm is a cubic meter “ cube “ Second experience of this year ( since I had to top up my log store unexpectedly early , due to being short changed 1.5m3 beginning of season ) Look online , come across the another site offering “ quality “ split seasoned firewood , cubic metre bag , £50 a bag , doesn’t sound bad right ? OK, let’s try them ! Enquiry on the phone first Q) What size are the bags please? A)I don’t know exactly , they are “ big “ Q) What is in the mix please, all hardwood and / or what species ? A) 90% hardwood , might be few softwood Q) I definitely do not want stuff that spits, pine etc , can you guarantee? A) Yes of course minimal softwood and no spitters Q) What size of the logs please? A) Standard 25cm long Great , right ? Order placed ! 3 bags delivered , 85cm jobs ( approx. 80% full) , clearly not a “ cube “ , nowhere near it , not difficult to measure volume , height x width x depth =Volume . Even all mobile phones have calculators nowadays, it does not require a science degree to multiply 3 numbers to work out volume. Sizes , he did say 25cm long , majority are approx 25cm , but I would say at least 20% 30cm long Also , when you quote split logs , one would assume they are split in proportional thickness/width to the length of the logs , ie. say 10cm or 15cm max wide , right ? Errr , no , wrong What he failed to mention however , was some of the logs are as wide as they are long ,25cm cube , I would say 30% of the total load . Now , I am one of the lucky owners of a Morso Squirrel ( I think they are fantastic ) , which is small but thankfully exceptionally deep chamber , but some of these lumps can no way fit . Even if they did , there is no way you could burn them anyway as that would leave zero room for adequate embers underneath . So I had to get my trusty log splitter out yesterday and re-split his “ split “ logs , some of them up to 3 times to get usable size logs out of the lumps Quality of the wood ? Simply put , errr , terrible. Covered in dried mud / soil , cannot see the grain , looking dull grey / mud colour , churned in mud field to give the look / impression they are well seasoned / aged look and feel ? The mix ? Oh , don’t get me started ! I would say at least 30% minimum pine varieties 20% other softwoods , I am no log expert but I know when I see hardwood. The moisture levels of these quality “ seasoned “ logs ? Well, I happened to have my trusty moisture meter nearby , so let us take a measurement ! Measurements are taken from inside after I re-split . Admittedly the softwoods were not too bad , as expected , most around 27% inside , not ideal but they will burn eventually , they won’t sizzle at least ! But hardwood ones , not one single piece under 30% , found few as high as 40% . Now , these Kiln dried crates , can I be blamed to say , this is where I will be spending my money on from now on? Uniform size , tightly packed on crates , you know exactly what stacked volume you will be ( hopefully ) getting. You know exact wood species will be supplied Are they expensive ? Not really , I have seen online retailers doing them for as low as £220 for 2 m3 delivered nationally , for Oak , Oak/Birch or Ash crates. To be honest , as far as the pure volume comparison I think it is probably even better value than the industry “ standard “ bags or truck loads etc.. I am not even fussed about it being kild dried , as I understand they will soak up moisture and come to more or less same level as properly air dried logs in couple of weeks. All I want to know what I am getting and exactly how much of it. Now , as I stated at the beginning , this is not a flame or personal attacks , purely my bad experiences and wanted to share If however , you are one of my suppliers , or ones like it , I am sure you would know who you are , it is time to change these silly practices , before you lose alot more of your customers to this new emerging Kiln dried import competition . People are not silly .

About

Arbtalk.co.uk is a hub for the arboriculture industry in the UK.  
If you're just starting out and you need business, equipment, tech or training support you're in the right place.  If you've done it, made it, got a van load of oily t-shirts and have decided to give something back by sharing your knowledge or wisdom,  then you're welcome too.
If you would like to contribute to making this industry more effective and safe then welcome.
Just like a living tree, it'll always be a work in progress.
Please have a look around, sign up, share and contribute the best you have.

See you inside.

The Arbtalk Team

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.