sandhill

Forgot to include this photo.

Thinking of a bandsaw mill, which took me to Arbtalk, and thought I'd see what's posted on PackFix. I have used the PackFix w/hydro turntable base for four years of light production, as I do not have a processor. I use a kinetic splitter and conveyor, to do about 70 cords/year. A couple things. First I use a piggyback forklift to move logs and pallets. I do not have anything that dumps, like a tractor frontend loader or tele handler. That was a factor in eliminating large bulk bags. Also the expense of bags was difficult to calculate, not knowing how much re-use that would provide. I eliminated ubc because of expense, stacking wood in them, the number required for a cord, and empty storage. A plus for ubc's is stackability and durability. A plus for the PackFix is eight raps of netting or about $2.00 per pallet, four pallets per cord loose, no stacking. Hardwoods season very well in one year. The hydro base means less forklift use (starts) and longer use when used, as after removing a full pallet, I replenish the two log decks. I cut/split 16" length. The shorter euro length may mean you could do a cord in three pallets. I do get some teepee splits up against the sides which can cause voids. When wrapped the load may tip or lean. Because of this, I fill 1/4 to 1/3 full and then check and use a hook-a-roon to eliminate this. I recheck when 2/3 full, but these splits I can reach by hand and redistribute quickly if necessary. (Again, the shorter euro cut length may eliminate this checking step altogether) The Posch quality and design was a welcome plus, as I bought this unit new, sight unseen, from the US Posch distributer, that ordered it for me. The paint is fantastic, the design simple, the stainless steel fasteners for removable panels, etc. all well thought out for outdoor equipment. Another plus is pallets, which can be stored, stacked 20 high, in a small space. As for firewood bags, I believe they would also need pallets under them, at least on the bottom row. Speaking of "bottom row". I've doubled stacked with mixed success. Watch the porch videos and note their double stacking. They're using a lot of wraps of netting, and the pallets are very heavy duty. It takes leveling the top of the lower row, staggering the top row, and using stiff hardwood pallets on top. I had trouble with settling, and getting the forks in the top row to remove. I do not have side "tilt" like a tele handler might have. I have side shift, not tilt. I also cover the individual bundles. This keeps leaves off in the fall,which get stuck, wet, and continue to hold moisture whenever it rains. I use 6' x 6' cut up tarps, fold the corners and sew. Then run bailing twine around, cinch and tie with half bow which is easily undone, and reused. I'm near Lake Michigan, which is 16" above long term average this year. Very wet the last few years which effects seasoning. There are some drawbacks or rather considerations. Netting has held up well after more than one year seasoning. The netting is expensive up front, but as mentioned earlier, I do eight wraps, about $2.00 worth, or less (2016 pricing) Seven can work but eight gives a complete double wrap to the top. In my case, I bought a pallet of netting, 64 rolls, to make the cost per roll cheaper as well as cheaper shipping. Delivery: I have been using a 12'6" flatbed, and hand unloading. This is very time consuming. It was to be temporary, and the plan to get a larger truck and carry the piggyback forklift for unloading and placing pallets for customers. I've decided to go with a dump trailer next spring, and load with a conveyor in the wood lot. This eliminates loading the pallets, which needed to be groomed off on the bottom and in-between to remove gravel and leaves before loading. I also had six custom made covers, to cover the palletized wood for transport, as the netting holds the wood, but at eight wraps, not enough for transport on a public road. When strapping the load, the bundles nudge together, making it difficult at times to get the covers off. Usually a bar or 2" x 4" could be used to shift the pallets, and the covers slipped off. A dump trailer will eliminate the covers,loading pallets, strapping loads, and it will keep the pallets in the yard for re-use which a larger truck and forklift placement would not. Another drawback to consider, is that for me I do not use the PackFix in the winter. This is because my forklift has industrial tires, which are very poor in the winter. They pack the snow and slide sideways, etc. Also the pallets ball up with snow on the bottom and do not sit flat on the ground or on the turntable. I also do not want to climb around on the truck unloading. Two of the four winters I've dropped the mast, quite easy to do, and stored the PackFix in a container. It requires fork extensions to move it. Usually by Nov. I'm sold out anyway, but these are considerations if you have a year round operation. Another possible drawback for you may be the plastic netting. It is recyclable, where as the treated lumber I used to make wood racks was not. I gave away the good ones to customers and cut up 30 of 100 because of rot or failure after four years. I had a lot of time and money in making them, and did not want to repeat that. I am very glad I purchased this equipment, which has eliminated stacking, eliminated the wood racks I used to use and their repair. I'm 66, and when done doing firewood for sale, I can sell the equipment and get a bit back, unlike ubc's, bulk firewood bags, etc. Despite the drawbacks of this system, I would readily do it again. My buddy said sell it (the PackFix), and pile the firewood, it would be faster. My reply was, I thought of that. The result is dirt in the wood scooping it up from the bottom of the pile. I would have to sell my lift and replace it with something. He said pour a concrete slab to eliminate dirt. Reply. A large enough slab for seventy cord would cost thousands. When done selling wood, I'd have a concrete slab. The wood will not season well, it will mold. Now, it seasons, it's clean, I can move it, and I can sell the PackFix and recoup some money if and when I'm done. And I can sell the land to a perspective home builder without a concrete slab to remove. I'm not a builder or fabricator, so buying the PackFix, I could set it up and start bundling firewood. The only thing I've done is change oil, replaces a small spring on the carburetor, and waxed it. Starts first pull every time. Very happy to share my experience with this equipment.

What is a drying floor? Not familiar with the term.

I realize this topic is more than a year old. Have made changes to the splitter, and also how I work. Small operation. Would like to jump up to a processor but this works very well for now. The splitter is a SuperSplit w/7hp Subaru. I added forklift tubes to move it, and still be able to use it with a conveyor. Last year I added a steer axle, by unbolting the original axle and moving it to the wedge end, and bolting a new leg/axle w/tongue to the engine end. The tongue being on the proper end and also unpins, as not a trip hazard. The spindles are found on-line under go-kart parts. I no longer use a staging table. For years, I cut half a cord of rounds, split half a cord of rounds. My body was doing the same motions and I could feel it in my knees and neck. That prompted me to look at how I could work both sides of the splitter and my body. There wasn't room for two log decks, two staging tables and room to move logs around. After several days of thinking on this, and trying different things I was stumped. I had been thinking of what I needed. Sitting on the forklift and looking around, the thought came "What can I do without?" I got off the lift, rolled the staging table (on wheels) out of the way and cut an 8' long logs into rounds, shut the saw off, and split the six pieces. Maybe... I did it again. The third time I let the splitter and conveyor run while not using them. Removing the staging table eliminating lifting 5,800 pounds per cord, and it now fit. I built the second log deck. My knees/neck no longer bother as well because I'm working both sides (that's why I remove the splitter tongue). Cut two logs and shut off the saw. Split one and roll another forward in its place and push/pull to log end stop with peeve. There are a series of holes drilled into the log deck to help do this. Split the cut log on other side, and roll another forward and against end stop. Cut two logs, sixteen pieces, repeat. The small table is to set the saw on between cuts. When the Posch is full, I shut the splitter/conveyor off and start the Posch, rotate the drum from under the conveyor, and bale a pallet, which is 1/4 cord. Every two or three pallets I need to load the log decks again. (A note for Havelock if he is reading, because he seems to have the same splitter.) I also added a phenolic plastic top to the splitter table by unbolting the table mounts and bolting below the beam vs on top of the lower flange. This drops the table 1/2", the thickness of the material. Cut to fit and round the edges with a router. This material grows in the sun, so only the leading edges were counter sunk and screwed to the original table bed. Very slippery for re-splitting, very nice. However, I never place my fingers around the end of a piece on the splitting table to pull it back, as shown in the previous video. Never. Instead, I use both hands if I can not grasp the edge with one hand to reposition. That way one hand is not on the end and the other on the lever. I enjoy reading your forums, and sharing as well. It is why I bought the Posch, having read both pro/con user reviews on it here. Very happy with that too. It has saved me a lot of stacking, and improved seasoning. No market for unseasoned firewood locally, it is mostly used by vacationers and second home owners. Folks that heat with wood do their own. The last photo shows the staging table and the extra lifting. I have learned to start the saw with either hand, as I start it a lot more now. Edit: The photos do not show it, but cutting in one spot the chips can get quite deep, and need scooped out at the end of the day. If not the log decks get too low for my long back.

SbTVF: Delivery, for me at this time, is covering pallets with a 'sock' if you will, and then loading on a flatbed. Honestly it is not ideal, and a slow process to unload by hand. There are many pluses to the Posch system, if you have the right support equipment. I do not, in that my truck is not large enough to carry the lift, and I have never tried to load it on a trailer. The trailer would have to be a deck over due to width, and have three ramps. The pluses and minuses therefor change, based on what you have to work with. Cutting the bundles results in a bit of a mess. The netting supports the wood. Cutting the netting releases the wood in all directions and the netting get caught on seemingly every piece of firewood in the bundle. It doesn't. Realistically, just 30% or so. Unwrapping the netting a bit at a time is preferable, removing some of the firewood, and unwrapping a little more. This requires some space around the bundle to do so. Strapping bundles on a truck is the opposite of this, tipping them tightly together, and requires scooting pallets with a pry of some sort to gain this space to uncover and unwrap. These are not huge obstacles, and I just gets by with what I have available. The obvious answer is a truck and lift, or trailer with ramps and a power all terrain pallet jack, skid steer, or something. A pallet weighs about 1,400 lbs green, and 1,000 lbs. seasoned which is a lot for smaller tractors. I very much like the excavator w/fork adaptor for tipping, that I saw in another thread on Arbtalk, and then use a dump box for efficient deliveries and retaining pallets for reuse. A cone splitter on an excavator would also allow breaking down large logs for processing. I can dream... The Posch's pluses far out weigh my slow delivery issues. It works well, and should work better in the future with some changes. Bags were an option, but they are not without handling and re-use issues as well. I've never tried bags, just read users blogging on them. Cost, tipping over while moving, the more often than not the need of a pallet under them, and a way of dumping them moved me in the Posch direction despite the initial cost. IBC work well and are stackable, but hold very little unless the firewood is stacked. Excellent for a kiln operation but I tight stacking seems to reduce open air drying. Again, in keeping with the topic title, I have found for open air seasoning the Posch netting works very well. There is one more pro/con consideration however, and that is the netting and the pollution foot print. I've added a photo of the netting label. On the one hand it does not break down. That can be seen both as bad and good. Bad...it doesn't break down. Good...it does not break down... and therefor does not pollute soils, and water tables which move over/under large areas. It is a number 4 re-cyleable, by incineration. I do not know if burning, and incineration are different in any way, as in heat intensity. I have been placing the used netting in with recycling materials. I have replaced a lot of racks made of treated lumber for something (hopefully), going forward with less over all impact. (I sold some racks, gave some away, and most went to a landfill.) Not sure how large firewood bags would compare.

I found this old photo to share. Takes some effort, on and off the lift several times to level the lowers units, to get them to nest this nicely. I've discovered too that there is considerable difference in pallet construction, and soft wood, or light weight pallets do not work as well. They, the pallets, sag and the lower cross boards deform upwards when used on the top row. I have tipped a few trying to get forks back in these soft wood pallets after sitting a year, and more often then not, when that happens, the lower supporting bundles tip and break as well. A bit of extra work is all, to pick up and rebundle. I did not double stack this year. Possibly next year if room is tight. The second photo shows where I changed from stacking one pallet on top of the one below, to staggering one on top of two. This worked better. The small amount of loose thrown per pallet and good air flow is optimal for seasoning even without covering (prior to using this system I have had issues with moldy wood some years). Loosely covering the tops seems to help even more of course to shed weeks of on/off spring rain and winter snow. The upper rows patina from the sun, the lower rows remain pale, but dry and season just as well. I have never used a moisture meter, so I have no numbers to share.

I use a Posch PackFix hydro. Very, very happy with it. Processing Oak and seasoning 12 months. Eliminates stacking labor and seeing much better seasoning results. Typically Oak is slow to season, and much improved at 2 years. This does exceptionally well with at one year. Easy handling on pallets. I do cover individually, and loosely, with 6' x 6' tarps, corners folded and stitched with twine run through them. Four pallets per cord (cutting 16" lengths and splitting small for stove wood), so it takes a little more space with pallets. Can be double stacked if top row is staggered, one on top of two for a more stable foot print, but sometimes difficult to pick off with forks after seasoning/settling (my lift does not have side tilt like some tele handlers). Saugatuck, Michigan, USA