ROG.

Got stones now so please ignore this thread

here it is = https://arbtalk.co.uk/forums/topic/39803-trailer-towing-b-and-be-licence-rules-explained/?page=7&tab=comments#comment-951950

4 hours ago, Justme said:

They have now. 

 

Sadly its pre the 2013 changes.

Unless it's been updated.

 

I thought I had further in the thread ?

Unable to edit first post in that thread - dunno why

20 minutes ago, nepia said:

https://freewoodchips.co.uk/

 

Released yesterday by His Bullmanness from this site.

Thanks - have signed up for a one off

Did anyone link to this sticky in this thread ?

https://arbtalk.co.uk/forums/topic/39803-trailer-towing-b-and-be-licence-rules-explained/

Hi folks

Not been on for a while and feel a bit cheeky asking but needs must

Daughter (no free cash) has a house in LE3 8LA and the cost for a tonne of stones is about £60 to fill some areas next to her house but she is willing to have wood chips instead if someone can dump about 800 to 1000 litres off for free

Area to fill is 8M X 1M X 10CM

can anyone help?

PS - it was me who produced this sticky = https://arbtalk.co.uk/forums/topic/39803-trailer-towing-b-and-be-licence-rules-explained/

How can they?

 

A pre 97 cat B licence holder will also have a B+E D1+E C1+E (<8250kg) ect

 

You cant have a PRE 97 cat B & not have the +E bit.

I am referring to the laws on each category not what categories any driver got when they passed a test in a certain year

Eh?

 

Pre 97 you have LOTS of cats & +E

 

Post 97 you get very few cats & no +E

I was referring to cat B not B+E as well as the 2013 changes not the changes which gave free +E pre 97

Quite simple.

 

Pre 97 you can tow an over 750kg trailer as long as it's mam doesn't exceed the 3500kgs

 

Post 97 you'll have to do a trailer test to tow over 750kgs.

Incorrect

The rules are the same for B licence towing be they pre or post 97

The same 3500 MAM rule applies

So now its just pre or post 97 in effect.

For B licences the law is the same no matter when it was gained so having both pre or post 97 rules on that displayed is silly as the pre 97 ones are revoked

For B+E its slightly different as it seems there are two sets of rules regarding the max MAM a trailer can be but as it affects so few then it hardly makes a difference

When I say nothing changed that is a bit of a fib coz they did revoke one small piece which was that the trailer MAM must not exceed vehicle kerbweight

I never get why they show the old rules !

The problem with that is that nothing has changed for B licences in 2013 so why they mentioned it is beyond me !

Only true way to find out is to take it empty to a weighbridge

Suzuki JIMNY Towing Weight Limit

Can tow on a B licence

I hope this info will help .....

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER

In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.

They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -

The supervising driver must be aged over 21

The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years

L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer

Correct insurance for a B+E learner

The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

The B+E test

No medical or theory test required

Read a number plate from a certain distance

VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5 asked

= [ame]

The next three can be in any order:-

VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = B+E Trailer reversing excercise videos - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds

DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/68791/LGV_PCV_BE_manoeuvring_exercise_area_diagram.pdf

VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = [ame]

One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles

Well explained here = Trailer Training Wales taking the B+E Test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.

DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521

Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

These simple rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed

B category

Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW

B category towing

A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg

If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg

B+E category

Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM

To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E

Below goes deeper into the rules......

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.

GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight something can weigh when fully loaded.

The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.

Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions and can be prosecuted for excess under C&U reg 100

GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.

In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.

The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS Tyre Load Rating | Blackcircles.com will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.

The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.

The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.

The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)

The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)

The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).

The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).

The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.

For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.

The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)

EXAMPLE

Vehicle

GVW 2050 kg

Towing capacity 1700 kg

GTW 3750 kg

Trailer

Un-laden/empty 700 kg

MAM 2000 kg

For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.

For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.

The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.

The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.

Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.

I think what i will do is drive to the vosa station at Crimplesham with an empty trailer and see what they say and then get them to sign a letter stating what they have said.

 

Many thanks for your help everyone, it is much appreciated,

VOSA now DVSA do not deal with licence laws so if you want info on that then its the DVLA you need or traffic police

If you want info on exceeding the towing capacity then be sure to ask DVSA about C&U reg 100

...and it does refer to Light Goods Vehicle which I take to mean less than 2.5 tonne

3.5 tonnes

I'll say again as far as I can see the position statement from the old VOSA that was posted here does allow this if you are driving with a B+E entitlement.

 

Once the towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonne I believ the MAM of the trailer will be the deciding weight.

 

my reasoning is from the statement on https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

 

"Licences held before 1 January 1997

 

If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 you are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM.

 

This is the weight of a vehicle or trailer including the maximum load that can be carried safely when it’s being used on the road."

 

I'd like a better cite to show the contrary.

There is one extra law for B licence towing - the 3500 total plated MAM rule - but ALL the other laws are exactly the same

If you believe otherwise then fine you are entitled to but that does not change the law

So in laymans terms if trailers max permissible weight is 2200kg but towing vehicle in OP can only pull 2000kg it's ok to load up to that weight and leave the original 2200kg plate on trailer?

YES that is legal

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity or GTW must be able to cope with the plated MAM weights

This applies to all licence categories

The max 3500 MAM rule applies to B licence towing

If you come under EU regs at any time in a fixed week (week) which is sunday midnight to sunday midnight then all other work done in that week must legally be officially recorded

Easiest official records are to use separate analogue card or digi printout paper and make a spate record for each day worked with your name date start and finish time on each

As an alternative you can use the tacho and select - out of scope

If during the same day you do some EU regs driving and some not then the out of scope really comes into its own to make clear what is what

After 29 calendar days those separate other work records can be binned

I would take this to the magistrates court

 

am contacting a recent ex VOSA TE for the max offence for this

Found the answer - it comes under this as it is part of the braking system

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/344447/enforcement-sanctions-policy.pdf - page 21

BRAKING SYSTEM AND

COMPONENTS

IM 59 Defective £100 FP

The Road Vehicles (Construction

& Use) Regulations 1986,

Regulation 18 and Section 41A of

the Road Traffic Act 1988, SO-5-

3pts

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208091/rules-on-drivers-hours-and-tachographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb-and-europe.pdf

If you come under EU regs at any time during the fixed week - known as week - which is from sunday midnight to sunday midnight then all other work during that week must be officially recorded

The easiest way to record that other work on days when not under EU regs is to use separate analogue cards - one for each day with your name date start and finish times on each

After each card gets to 29 calendar days it can be binned

[ame]

I would take this to the magistrates court

am contacting a recent ex VOSA TE for the max offence for this

Draw a circle 100 km with a compass with your base at the centre

Do any driving inside that circle and its exempt as long as the rest of the exemption is met