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Spruce Pirate

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Posts posted by Spruce Pirate

  1. 2 hours ago, JDon said:

    Hey mate. I use a 20mm plate 100x100 with a bit of pipe on the end of it so it doesn't fly off the jack all the time. Have to use it, even on some of the big hairy ones which are far worse than the ones here it will push the plate into the butt of the log. 

     

    This hairy back leaner couldn't go the way it wanted so had to be jacked in.  It put up a bit of a fight!  Think the base of the jack was about an inch into the stump.

    IMG-20220805-WA0002.jpeg

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    IMG-20220805-WA0007.jpeg

    • Like 4
    • Haha 1
  2. Whereabouts is your windblow course?

     

    Many years ago when I was trying to get into forestry work I called all the FC offices.  None of them had any work, but some of them gave me the names of contractors working in their areas.  You could try calling them, along with any estates or management companies you can think of, they might be able to point you in the direction of someone who is good.  You could also try the FCA (Forestry Contracting Association) Directory, you can search geographically on that.

     

    Remember there's quite a big difference between the ticket and the actual work, it's the old driving test analogy of actually learning after you've got the ticket.  Be prepared to travel, most cutting work is for contractors and they're seldom in one area for all that long, cutters working for big outfits might be on five sites in one week.  Keep stumps low, snedding tight, remember in timber cutting wood = money for the contractor, production and efficiency are important.  Know your log sizes and specifications.

     

    Take any work you can get, it's all experience, all trigger time and if you can do the crappy mundane jobs they may eventually lead to where you want to be.  That's about all the useful advice I can think of, expect to be overworked, underpaid, never happy with the weather and always in debt with the local saw shop.

    • Like 4
  3. On 08/03/2023 at 16:47, Mark Bolam said:

    Out of area, but @Spruce Pirate, @slack ma girdle and @IronMike all seem to have a good handle on this type of work.

     

    Yeah, way out of area -  I'm not really even sure where Gloucestershire is!  Generally I steer folk towards the merchants if it's a clearfell, for smaller thinnings like this it might be possible to find a firewood merchant who'd be interested.  Biomass can be an awkward market now due to the nonsense that is Woodsure, so I'd guess firewood is probably your best bet.  Don't know anyone down there who'd be interested, but you could try trawling through the firewood suppliers groups on Facebook, you might be able to sell it through there.

     

    Do you know roughly how many tons / cubes you're trying to sell?  Species?

    • Like 1
  4. 23 hours ago, Mark Bolam said:

    Cut out of the window of his forwarder.

    Low stumps.

    Have you seen his arms?

     

    I've seen Big J trying to squeeze himself into a van and through a doorway - I can easily believe he has to put his arms out the windows to fit in the wee Novotnay.😂

     

     

     

    11 hours ago, Big J said:

    On this site, handcut. It's a royal PITA. But 95% of our work will be following harvesters. There are loads of Rottne H8s around here (the factory is less than an hour away). It's a good matchup with our size of forwarder.

     

    Hand stacking not too good in Sweden then?  H8 looks a good wee machine in flat ground that's reasonably firm - don't see any around here.

    • Haha 2
  5. On 22/09/2022 at 08:18, Big J said:

    The locals think I'm mad for still swimming, but I'm in the lake every day. 

     

     

    The locals aren't the only ones! 😂

     

     

     

    3 hours ago, Big J said:

    First day out with our forwarder today. 

     

     

    We've started on a fairly complicated and difficult little site for a relative of a neighbour. Just testing the machine out really and it's doing well. Traction is very good, drive system nice, crane a bit sensitive and cabin lovely. It's a Novotny LVS 511.

     

     

    How was the wood cut Jonathon?  Small harvester or hand cut?

  6. 17 hours ago, Macpherson said:

     

    Aye, I believe that each of Henry 8's fleet needed around 10 ha or 1,000 trees of  'managed' for hundreds of years Oak woodland, leading on to Nelson's ships needing more than 4 times that per boat.

     

    I did read that the stunted rotting unmanaged oak woodlands around the Loch Lomond area were planted just after Henry's and pre Nelson's era with a nod to the future of shipbuilding... and then came the industrial rev, and people forgot to care.

     

    To put it in perspective, had the above mentioned wood been managed properly they would still have 2 or 3 hundred years to go before harvesting... changed days eh !

     

    It kind of points to the completely different mindset of past times where folk didn't just rip out nature without any foresight but had worked with it for millennia.... thinking about this while I type I guess that the stripping out of nearly all of the mature ancient Oak woodlands to build Men o' war must have been the biggest change to this country since the ice melted, and once the resource was used up it was essentially gone for ever,  cheers.

    I think a lot of the Loch Lomond oak woods, certainly on the east side, date back a long while for charcoal making for tanning and then smelting.  You can still see a lot of overgrown coppice stools if you wander through them.  Ship builders of old seem to be either hailed as guardians of the forest, making sure enough was left to maintain their future needs or as total rapists, destroying everything in sight to build a navy.  Depends who you speak to.  Certainly changed days in terms of how woods are managed though.

     

     

    12 hours ago, Big J said:

    It's interesting coming to a country where the forest biome is fairly close to what it would have been. It really highlights just how much our Victorian forebears have to answer for in the UK, filling our country with non-native plants and animals

     

    12 hours ago, Big J said:

     

    I don't think that Oak is needed now - certainly not in any great quantity. As a milling timber, if can produce building boards, but structurally, you're better off with larch and douglas fir. More consistent, easier to grade, easier to dry and the production cycle is 1/4 of the length. 

     

    There will still be a place for it for niche furniture and building, but beyond that, I can't see the point. There are plenty of hardwoods that are (in my opinion) more attractive and nearly all of them are easier to get to the stage of mature sawlog then oak. And there is the drying of oak, which is also a pain from the point of view of a sawmiller.

     

    Sorry J, I'm really not trying to pick a fight.  😂

     

    What you've said in the two posts above is very much the crux of the matter.  If we want to protect the natural environment then we should be looking to native species.  Oak, for example, as we're talking about it, support a huge variety of species in addition to producing timber - this is the trade off for growing slowly and being difficult to dry out.  It's a problem of having a very limited number of native species, and probably why we've been introducing things since at least Roman times.  I'm not disagreeing that a lot of Victorian introductions have been disastrous (although Doug fir is a bit of a success at least).  Of course, if climate change really does bite then we have to look at the long term prospects for all species - oak could be out altogether and we could be growing gum trees? cedars? Corsican pine could make a big leap in the productive species league tables

     

    Again, out of curiosity, are there many non-natives in Swedish forestry?  I always imagine it dominated by Scots, Norway and birch, but that could easily be wrong.  What's the average rotation age?

    • Like 3
  7. 9 hours ago, Stere said:

    13400 tree per hectare  really dense is that corrrect?

     

     

    Yes,  approximately 3' spacing as I was saying earlier.

     

     

     

     

    12 hours ago, Big J said:

     

    That as the case may be, such tight planting was also done when labour and materials were cheap. At £3.50 a tree, supplied, planted and tubed, tight spacing is economically unviable. 

     

     

    That's a fair point Jon, BUT, remember we're dealing with a very long term product here.  History suggests that good quality hardwood such as oak will always sell, and always fetch a good price.  Good quality, not average, not poor, properly grown oaks of good quality.  Such being the case there should always be a decent return on the investment in the future.  Remember the planting costs are only one of the costs of growing quality hardwood.  Formative pruning around year 3 -5 with regular pruning and high pruning up to thinnings stage all eat up the cash.  Also remember that at high density nobody's tubing and staking, fencing becomes the only feasible option at these densities - if you take a square hectare and plant it at 1100/ha each tree is paying for 36cm of fencing, at 13400/ha each tree is only paying for less than 3cm of fencing, a significant economy of scale. 

     

    It would have been correspondingly cheaper to plant at 3m spacing in the 1930's compared to planting at 3' spacing, just the same as it is now.  The main difference seems to be that between the wars and immediately post war people valued timber production as it was a very necessary resource.  We seem to have lost sight of the fact that unless we plant trees we won't have any timber, and if we continue to plant at ridiculously low densities all we'll end up with is a firewood crop.  I'd imagine your days of sawmilling would give a fair insight into different planting regimes and their relative impacts on timber quality?

     

    Out of curiosity, what's the planting / restocking like in Sweden?  I don't know much about it, but from what I've seen in pictures and videos I'd guess a fairly high density?

    • Like 5
  8. 22 minutes ago, AHPP said:

    I always find it funny when shooters etc are giving it the big one about being custodians of the countryside, killing greys to protect trees and let the reds back in. I bet the reds are just as bad for trees. 

     

    I don't know if there's much evidence or study on reds and damage to trees.  But my money is with yours, I reckon almost as bad as greys if not as bad.

  9. 3 hours ago, Big J said:

     

    It's not 3ft. 2.5m x 2.5m is normal. Or 2.0m x 2.5m. Sometimes it's 3x3m but it tends not to produce very good quality trees.

     

    Going to have to disagree there.  Those spacings are what the grant schemes dictate, not what is good for growing timber.  Most of the old literature, I'm lead to believe, favours tight spacings.  Anecdotally, I've seen this in practice and it works, but my experience is not wide enough to be considered scientifically robust.

     

     

     

    Locally, we have some hardwoods destroyed by squirrels, however, there has been a purge on greys to favour the reds which are moving back in.  The result is that it is now years since I've seen a grey squirrel, which is a good thing, and timber damage has gone down too.  The reds have, as yet not really moved back in to fill the vacuum, if and when they do it will be at least interesting to see if the damage to trees increases again.

    • Like 1
  10. 9 hours ago, organic guy said:

    3m

     

    3 meters is massively wide spacing for commercial oak, 3 feet is more like a commercial spacing.  With that in mind I might be inclined to suggest high pruning as high as you can and a delayed thin.  BUT, I don't know the wood, don't know what the soils are like, what aspect it has, whether it's sheltered or exposed or how well the trees are growing.

     

    Do you have any pictures?  In the absence of visiting the site they might help people give a more informed opinion.

     

    As a slight aside, there is a long tradition of growing trees for someone else to harvest.  I wouldn't consider looking after a future crop for your children, grandchildren or somebody else altogether as irrelevant at all.

  11. I've got a couple of jobs through here.  Had a few folk work for me through Arbtalk.  Sold a few bits of wood through here.  Got lots of ideas how to do things differently or more efficiently.  Had some good laughs at the jokes thread or some of the general comments.  Got frustrated at some of the less helpful contributions.  Think I've been a member for 11 years now, still don't know how the badges work or what they mean, but I keep coming back.  I'd definitely miss Arbtalk if it went up in smoke tomorrow, of all the tree websites it's the most useful to me - UK based and more helpful than a lot of the others which tend to be more pissing contests.

    • Like 2
  12. 10 minutes ago, Johnpl315 said:

    I used to work on a Christmas tree farm many years ago, there is some serious money involved, although not without a share of work. 

     The farm I worked on harvested around 70k trees a year, and they only sold trade. Trade prices ranged from about £15 up to £50 for a regular sized tree. Say an average of £30. That's a fair amount of revenue! 

     But, you need the land, deer fencing, planting, bud rubbing, pruning, herbicide application to prevent them growing too fast, grading and marking, cutting, netting, loading on a trailer behind a tractor, taken back to a yard, unloading and palleting. 

     There is no doubt that the estate owner was a multi millionaire, but the Christmas trees were just one part of the estate, alongside a farm, shoot and woodland operations. 

     Most of the jobs were mundane and extremly repetitive and carried out by Eastern Europeans. 

    Hope this gives you a bit of an insight! 

     

    It's a long time since I was involved in Christmas trees in any serious way, but this is almost exactly my experience.  There's money to be made, but you have to work for it -quite hard.  Are there millions to be made?  Not sure, possibly, if you're in the right part of the chain but it's not going to be easy money.

    • Like 1
  13. On 22/11/2022 at 21:23, Puffingbilly413 said:

    All I meant was that if any tree work notifications etc arrive with an LPA and it seems to them that the FC or equivalent should be informed then there should be a system in place for that to happen. And vice versa. I say system but that overcomplicates it. 

     

    I know what the ins and outs of the legislation are in terms of applicant/notifier, it would just be nice if 'they' bothered their arses to speak to each other as a matter of routine.

     

    If you look on council websites they observe that felling licences might be required. They know these things exist. Just join it up why not.

     

    It certainly used to be the case when I worked for them that FC consulted with LPA on any applications, be it felling or planting.  That's over 20 years ago, but I don't imagine it's changed.  I don't think the reverse worked with LPA's consulting the FC.

    • Like 1
  14. I mostly work seven days, but to varying degrees.  Some days not much, maybe a bit of computer stuff or maintenance, other days a lot.  I too have very little work / life separation, been self-employed so long it's just pretty much who I am and what I do.  Sometimes it is a bit much, but generally I'm pretty happy with it, I generally enjoy what I do, so that helps.

     

    Given the chance though, no I wouldn't work at all.  I'd have a nice big pot of money, enough to see out my days with whatever whim I choose and keep myself busy indulging said whims.  Unfortunately I'm constrained by the real world and so have to work, but ideally, no, I'd be a gentleman of leisure.

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 1
  15. 17 minutes ago, htb said:

    Not too sure on that Wallace, friend of mine just done windblow training but only on single trees apparently another course for multiple, more money for Ringlink. I will check for sure the morn as we are working together.

     

    Good old RInglink!

     

    I just had a look at the NPTC website and it seems you're right Dave.  Individual Windblown Trees and then Interwoven Stems & Part Blown Trees.  It's a couple of years since I've known anyone do it, but it was definitely only one ticket at that time.

  16. 44 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

    If your doing what you say, you want to be looking for £150 plus a day, But i would start a bit higher At £200 a day as its a starting point for negotiations, this would give you a bit more scope to may be get a bit more than £150, you can all ways come down a bit on your price but you can never  go up once a price has been mentioned, another bit of advise i would give you is look at doing CS34/35 singular windblown and multiple windblown tickets, and dont let any one tell you that you have to do these seperatly as you dont you only need to pay once ,,

     

    Think they've put these back into one ticket again, back how it used to be (CS 15?), but don't know the new numbers.

     

    • Like 1
  17. 7 hours ago, KateH said:

    Thanks Pete, that is the only reply so far that has been connected to any kind of employment/career advice. It all makes interesting reading. Hope you keep enjoying it 👍😊 Kate

     

    I'm pretty sure this says something about tree work, I'm just not totally sure what.

    • Like 2
  18. Rates for woodcutters is a very difficult subject.  I'd agree with a lot of what's been said here before about difficult to get cutters and even more difficult to get good cutters.  Part of the problem is that cutters are self-employed and providing A LOT of kit, saws - probably small, medium and large, wedges, hammers, jacks, first aid kit, PPE, tapes, breaking bars, fuel, oil, bars, chains, chainsaw training, refresher training, log books, first aid training, vehicle to and from work - often miles up rough forest roads which eat vehicles.  Then they're expected to put plenty of timber on the ground, presented well for either the harvester or the forwarder, realistically low stumps, properly sned, cleanly cut to the right lengths.  Start comparing this to other industries and I'd say there's no way a decent cutter should be on any less than £300 a day.

     

    The trouble is the industry won't stand it.  Too many people saying £150 a day is all they'll pay and putting up with folk who can't really do the job where if they'd pay more they'd get more done.  Too many "cutters" turning up on site with several things on my list above missing and without the skills to do the job thinking they're worth mega-bucks, which leads to contractors thinking cutters aren't worth the money.  Too many contractors think a cutter just costs them money, seemingly blind to the fact that the cutter is putting timber on the deck which earns money.  Too many jobs costed where the cutting element isn't properly costed, if the industry can stand the fact that an unproductive welfare unit is going to cost a certain amount per ton, or per week or whatever then we should start to think that maybe the cutting element might start to cost as well and enable decent rates to be paid.  Sometimes the timber just isn't there too allow a cutter to produce properly, I did a job in the summer where I was lucky to be getting 60m3 on the deck in a day, small trees, all leaning the wrong way and just a ball ache to fell and be anywhere near productive.  There's more jobs going to have to fall into this category if rates are going to improve.

     

    Sawlogs were over £100 a ton a short while ago and cutters and contractors saw basically nothing in return, yet as soon as rates drop we're too expensive.  There needs to be a more equal share of the pie.

     

    We also need to get some realistic system of bringing on people who want to do the work, be it young ones entering the industry or tree surgeons looking to diversify.  Again, the costs of these people being un-productive needs to be covered somehow, simply moaning that someone is useless and can't get the job done is very unlikely to get them to progress.  None of us were born knowing how to do everything but the current system, touched on by others in earlier posts breeds cutters who have tickets but not full skills and think they're worth what is currently top-end money.  I think they should be paid that money, but while they're being mentored to become properly skilled cutters and earn proper money for doing so.  Then again, I quite like living in Fantasy-Land..........

    • Like 16
  19. We're generally very rural so a lot of the time everything stays on site, logs for use client's use or habitat piled, branches either habitat piled or chipped, either for use as mulch or broadcast on site.

     

    If we do remove from site logs generally either goes for sale as lengths for biomass, get processed for firewood or milled for our own use or signs, benches etc.  If chip needs removed it mostly goes to one of the neighbours farms for mixing in with the dung heap, bedding or whatever they see fit.  We don't have a lot of arisings due to the nature of our business being more forestry than arb so it's easier to give away a wee bit of chip than to try and sell.  If we did more arb and had more to get rid of it might be a different story.

  20. Started working in forestry, the guy I worked for did a bit of arb work on the side, I've carried on doing a bit of arb here and there.  Mostly removals, not so keen on reductions, don't do hedge trimming.  Depending what contracts I've got I do more arb or less, currently not doing much, mostly forestry but it comes and goes.

    • Like 3
  21. For what it's worth, my understanding of things:

     

    Pavement - the tarred (normally) bit next to a road you walk on as a pedestrian.

    Footpath - a path through fields/woods/anywhere else which isn't beside a road.

    Footway - antiquated term to describe either of the above.

     

    Spelling things with z's - American, very annoying when children and young people do it, worth fighting the fight of the just over to preserve the use of the s.

     

    Having your photo used without permission on someone else's website - very, very annoying but probably a minefield of legalities and way more hassle than it is worth to do anything about other than previously mentioned threats of physical violence.

  22. On 18/08/2022 at 15:34, Big J said:

    Yeah, like Andy says, blueberries here too (blåbär).

     

    Couple more photos from this morning. Getting to grips with the new machine now.

     

     

    IMG_20220818_084401_8.jpg

    IMG_20220818_124454_1.jpg

     

    Nevermind all this swimming and fishing and quality of life nonsense, what's the timber going for?  Small diameter?  Random lengths?  Pulp?  Is it all birch or are you getting Norway and pine too?  Ground can't be that hard if you've got the tracks on?  

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1

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