Jump to content

Log in or register to remove this advert

New planting - required to comply with BS5837 ?


PGTips
 Share

Recommended Posts

BS5837 (referring to NHBC 4.2) makes very clear recommendations as to the distance that new planting should be from existing buildings. The distances are greatest for tall, 'thirsty' deciduous trees in clay soils adjacent to buildings with shallow footings.

Can anyone offer a view or legal precedent as to how much duty there is to take BS5837 into account, on the part of a developer designing, or the Planning Authority in determining a planning application?

The case concerns an extensive mitigation planting carried out as part of a planning permission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Log in or register to remove this advert

  • Replies 20
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Perhaps the foundations have been designed to accommodate the trees' influence, or perhaps there are no shrinkable clays. If the answer to both those is neither, or if you don't know the answers, then speculation is pointless. But if they are 'yes' then ...

 

5837 in regard to these issues is secondary to well-established industry standards, particularly NHBC and building regulations. Annex A is 'informative', a lower level of imperative than the rest of the Standard. It talks of the 'need to' avoid damage. At best one can say that in saying 'need' it is echoing legal liabilities and the cost/life implications for buildings if the advice is not followed.

 

I know of no precedent citing 5837. There are several subsidence cases citing NHBC and two citing 3998.

 

So could done get hammered for not consulting 5837 or not taking its advice? Probably not in isolation. Could a Council be liable for imposing conditions that ignore Annex D? Hmmm, maybe but not in isolation. Such conditions would be unreasonable and should be overturned. I think someone in the design team would be responsible for spotting the conflict between conditions and likely subsidence. Ideally before conditions were formally imposed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BS5837 (referring to NHBC 4.2) makes very clear recommendations as to the distance that new planting should be from existing buildings. The distances are greatest for tall, 'thirsty' deciduous trees in clay soils adjacent to buildings with shallow footings.

Can anyone offer a view or legal precedent as to how much duty there is to take BS5837 into account, on the part of a developer designing, or the Planning Authority in determining a planning application?

The case concerns an extensive mitigation planting carried out as part of a planning permission.

 

The scenario you paint is a little vague. Your words imply that the planting has already taken place....and there have been some implications? Is negligence alleged? For a precedent to have been set the case would have had to be heard in the Court of Appeal and I am not aware of any such cases. Furthermore I am not aware of any cases where lower courts have considered such matters and delivered a judgment that might be of use to you.

 

In terms of a view: planting potentially large trees en masse near large numbers of domestic houses on clay soils where the foundations have been designed without knowledge of large trees coming along is a recipe for disaster. The case studies of Peterborough and Milton Keynes are interesting as that is precisely what they did and are now paying the price. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that their insurance bill (from claims) is larger than their "tree" budget but I have few hard facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for your replies. i have tried to be concise and stick to principles rather than air too much detail in public.

However, to add a little 'flesh to the bones'. I am the owner of property adjacent to the mitigation planting. (I am also a builder and have a working knowledge of planning and the Building Regs.).

The trees have been planted. The soil is a Class One low plasticity clay and the foundation depth of at least some of the adjacent properties is around 400mm.

NHBC4.2 gives a distance of 27m for oak, the planted distance of the nearest trees is as little as 8m.

Outline PP has been granted and the planting is in response to a condition of the OPP. The area of planting is greater than that required for mitigation. I am trying to keep both developer and Planning Authority 'on side' in the hope of negotiating a compromise but am also trying to establish any legal recourse.

This might have to be through seeking enforcement.

Neither applicant nor the planning Authority appear to have even considered applying the yardstick of BS5837 or NHBC4.2, to which it defers.

These standards are much more commonly used for construction near existing trees.

I have had sympathetic words but no concrete undertaking to resolve the situation. There are further nuances but those would be for a PM.

 

I can see that there would be legal liability were a link to be demonstrated between the planting and future damage. The degree of duty to only plant or give permission to plant in accordance with BS5837 / NHBC 4.2 is less clear.

As a builder, I am obliged to comply with NHBC4.2 and the equivalent Building Regs.

Any further thoughts would be welcomed. I shall try to locate the Peterborogh and MK cases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry but I do not wish to post a picture.

It is a mass planting on 2.5m centres, both ways.

There are 6 or 7 species.

The nearest rows, which include oaks, are 6m from a recently built (pre-trees) wall on 900mm deep footings and 8m from a 1930s wall on 400mm footings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry but I do not wish to post a picture.

It is a mass planting on 2.5m centres, both ways.

There are 6 or 7 species.

The nearest rows, which include oaks, are 6m from a recently built (pre-trees) wall on 900mm deep footings and 8m from a 1930s wall on 400mm footings.

 

Trees are not the problem. Are there shrinkable clays and/or insufficiently deep foundations? That's all you need to think about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trees are not the problem. Are there shrinkable clays and/or insufficiently deep foundations? That's all you need to think about.

 

I totally agree Joules. Any future management, ie standard tree care, will accommodate the usual perceived tree related issues. Without shrinkable clay in this instance, there is nothing else to be done IMO. The trees are a condition of planning. Retrospective changes are hard to implement without real evidence.

 

To the OP, I suggest finding out specifically what soils you may have, this link would provide you with some coarse level indication of the types of soil you may have in your area (it is not absolutely definitive however!).

 

Further to that, you can send away some soil to be analysed - usually 1kg is needed, and this will determine if you actually have shrinkable soil or not. There are several soil analysis services (ask Google...) that will be able to complete this analysis for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


  •  

  • Featured Adverts

About

Arbtalk.co.uk is a hub for the arboriculture industry in the UK.  
If you're just starting out and you need business, equipment, tech or training support you're in the right place.  If you've done it, made it, got a van load of oily t-shirts and have decided to give something back by sharing your knowledge or wisdom,  then you're welcome too.
If you would like to contribute to making this industry more effective and safe then welcome.
Just like a living tree, it'll always be a work in progress.
Please have a look around, sign up, share and contribute the best you have.

See you inside.

The Arbtalk Team

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.