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Mick Dempsey

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1 hour ago, Commando said:.  However I don't get people who say they are happy to see terriers killing rats but think hounds on foxes is unacceptable/animal cruelty.🤔

There are 2 very clearly definable differences in the 2 examples though Craig. 
 

(1) Setting terriers amongst rats is a short sharp high intensity high return and might  be considered as having an efficient and functional output. 
 

(2) It wouldn’t normally be considered as a recreational pastime dressed up as a credible pest control measure. 
 

On that basis I don’t think there is a contradiction or even a correlation between the 2 examples.  Whilst I wouldn’t necessarily say it made me happy to see a terrier amongst rats - I could / can / have seen the necessity and efficiency that can be achieved. 
 

I don’t believe the same degree of necessity / efficiency exists in relation to fox hunting. 
 


 

 

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One point I’m pretty sure of is that the hunting ban has had a detrimental effect on the fox population.
I have a number of mates who shoot foxes on a regular basis, they all report seeing significant numbers of sick, poor conditioned, and starving foxes. Also lots of released urban foxes who have no fear of humans.
No more natural selection, they literally shoot everything they see…
Sad state of affairs.

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1 hour ago, Commando said:

One point I’m pretty sure of is that the hunting ban has had a detrimental effect on the fox population.
I have a number of mates who shoot foxes on a regular basis, they all report seeing significant numbers of sick, poor conditioned, and starving foxes. Also lots of released urban foxes who have no fear of humans.
No more natural selection, they literally shoot everything they see…
Sad state of affairs.

Like a lot of the anti hunting policies unfortunately. I guess they would rather see the wholesale indiscriminate destruction of a particular animal than stomach what they see as toffs having a day out. I’m indifferent to fox hunting but as has been said before on this topic it is not all gentry out there, my sister rode regularly with hunts in Northumberland and is firmly working class but also an outstanding horsewomen, her take on it was they hardly saw a fox 9 times out of ten. Fast forward to the situation we have now with affordable night vision and thermal imaging systems and ever more efficient flat shooting rounds  and foxes are being culled in record numbers. Darkness no longer offers any cover unfortunately. I’ve been out myself with NV on a moderated 223 and to be honest it’s no longer a challenge or about fieldcraft etc. Ok a job has to be done sometimes but the reality is for many it’s about hi tech ego boosted high number hauls on a nightly basis. 🤷‍♂️A very emotive subject for sure. 

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1 hour ago, Commando said:

One point I’m pretty sure of is that the hunting ban has had a detrimental effect on the fox population.
I have a number of mates who shoot foxes on a regular basis, they all report seeing significant numbers of sick, poor conditioned, and starving foxes. Also lots of released urban foxes who have no fear of humans.
No more natural selection, they literally shoot everything they see…
Sad state of affairs.

 

13 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Like a lot of the anti hunting policies unfortunately. I guess they would rather see the wholesale indiscriminate destruction of a particular animal than stomach what they see as toffs having a day out. I’m indifferent to fox hunting but as has been said before on this topic it is not all gentry out there, my sister rode regularly with hunts in Northumberland and is firmly working class but also an outstanding horsewomen, her take on it was they hardly saw a fox 9 times out of ten. Fast forward to the situation we have now with affordable night vision and thermal imaging systems and ever more efficient flat shooting rounds  and foxes are being culled in record numbers. Darkness no longer offers any cover unfortunately. I’ve been out myself with NV on a moderated 223 and to be honest it’s no longer a challenge or about fieldcraft etc. Ok a job has to be done sometimes but the reality is for many it’s about hi tech ego boosted high number hauls on a nightly basis. 🤷‍♂️A very emotive subject for sure. 

It’s useful being able to discuss the issue (from differing perspectives) with grown ups. 
 

Here’s what doesn’t add up (for me) I do accept the point that dispersal of fit and destruction of unfit is (probably the only credible) justification for what was known pre ban. That said, I wouldn’t acknowledge or accept as a credible argument that mounted hunt with hounds is an appropriate or efficient means of achieving that. 
 

It is also highly contradictory when one pro hunt advocate states that 9 times out of 10 they wouldn’t even see a fox and then another one blames the (supposed) demise of hunting post ban for wholesale species degradation. 
 

It’s like they are opposing statements both used as justification? How does that work?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

 

It’s useful being able to discuss the issue (from differing perspectives) with grown ups. 
 

Here’s what doesn’t add up (for me) I do accept the point that dispersal of fit and destruction of unfit is (probably the only credible) justification for what was known pre ban. That said, I wouldn’t acknowledge or accept as a credible argument that mounted hunt with hounds is an appropriate or efficient means of achieving that. 
 

It is also highly contradictory when one pro hunt advocate states that 9 times out of 10 they wouldn’t even see a fox and then another one blames the (supposed) demise of hunting post ban for wholesale species degradation. 
 

It’s like they are opposing statements both used as justification? How does that work?

 

 

Pro Hunt ?? I hope that does not refer to my post ??. I stated right at the beginning that I was indifferent to hunting but to be honest it’s that emotive a subject the fence is the safest place to be. 

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2 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Pro Hunt ?? I hope that does not refer to my post ??. I stated right at the beginning that I was indifferent to hunting but to be honest it’s that emotive a subject the fence is the safest place to be. 

Yeah, quite right, poor choice of words on my part. 

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I'm not sure that hunting or not is responsible for the overall health of foxes, I don't think the hunts are that effective and for us we've suffered from having urban fox 'rescues' deposited near to us.

 

I can understand people trying to protect activities they like, or which are related to things they like buy I struggle with people arguing that something is ok because it;

 

Only kills sick or old animals - doesn't sound much like sport.

 

Doesn't kill many animals - then what's the point?

 

Is clearly divisive and causes a disproportionate amount of negative reaction - difficult to be subtle while dressed in red on a horse. 

 

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if fox hunting caused more people to have negative views of the countryside than any other activity.

 

As I've said before. I'm fine with many other activities such as reasonable organised game shoots, vermin control etc, I just think hunting doesn't make anyone look good.

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I wouldn’t say I’ve ever been a big fan of the hunt, but I’m certainly not opposed to it either.

 

The digging out of foxes that have gone to ground never sat well with me, though.

I suspect I’m not alone in this.

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