Making the news today....

[Whoppa Choppa]

20 hours ago, doobin said:

Palestine outwits Israeli intelligence and is able to launch a large scale surprise attack. Potentially about to kick off big time, with Iran's 'supreme leader' giving his backing to Palestine.

 

"

"We congratulate the Palestinian fighters," Rahim Safavi is quoted as saying by the ISNA news agency.

"We will stand by the Palestinian fighters until the liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem”, he says."

 

Israel Gaza live updates: We are at war, says Israel's PM, after major attack - BBC News

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

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About 545 people have been injured in the attacks, with at least 22 Israelis dead, according to Israeli officials.

 

In London

 

 

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, Whoppa Choppa said:

In London

 

Multiculturalism at its best. Let’s see what the London mayor does about any of this. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Johnsond

[Whoppa Choppa]

33 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Multiculturalism at its best. Let’s see what the London mayor does about any of this. 

He'll be celebrating. Obviously. Privately or not, depends on which building he's in or company of I guess. 

[Whoppa Choppa]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67040611

[Big J]

Ah f*ck, it's an awful situation in Israel/Palestine.

 

There is no good outcome that I can see. 

 

Firstly, Israel shouldn't be there. It came about due to the rise of Zionism in the early 20th Century and then Western guilt after WW2. And the post colonial dividing up of the Middle East that paid no heed to cultural borders. 

 

Whether or not you agree with the existance of Israel, it exists. 

 

I am in no way condoning the terrorist behaviour of Hamas, but it's important to understand it within the context of a 75 year occupation, with the systematic subjugation and belittling of the Palestinian people. Israel has defied international law with illegal settlements within the West Bank and continues to treat the Palestinian people as second class citizens. 

 

Set against that back drop, it's easy to understand the building of incredible resentment towards Israel, and how easy it would be for a terrorist organisation to radicalise young men and women to fight for them. 

 

A two state solution is the only way to go. It will require compromise on both sides, with each reluctantly acknowledging the other's right to exist, but it requires a significant change in policy too. The Israelis need to stop taking land from Palestinians and recognise that they're a nation borne out of conquest, land grabs and transparent inequality. The Palestinians need to recognise that Israel now has a right to exist, and that terrorist activities against civilians are never acceptable. 

 

I think it would be naive to look at the situation purely from the point of view as Israel being subject to a terrorist incursion. Israel is a war machine, whose existence within the currrent political status quo is predicated on it's ability to repress it's Arab population.

 

It's grim. Truly.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Big J

[Johnsond]

6 minutes ago, Big J said:

Ah f*ck, it's an awful situation in Israel/Palestine.

 

There is no good outcome that I can see. 

 

Firstly, Israel shouldn't be there. It came about due to the rise of Zionism in the early 20th Century and then Western guilt after WW2. And the post colonial dividing up of the Middle East that paid no heed to cultural borders. 

 

Whether or not you agree with the existance of Israel, it exists. 

 

I am in no way condoning the terrorist behaviour of Hamas, but it's important to understand it within the context of a 75 year occupation, with the systematic subjugation and belittling of the Palestinian people. Israel has defied international law with illegal settlements within the West Bank and continues to treat the Palestinian people as second rate citizens. 

 

Set against that back drop, it's easy to understand the building of incredible resentment towards Israel, and how easy it would be for a terrorist organisation to radicalise young men and women to fight for them. 

 

A two state solution is the only way to go. It will require compromise on both sides, with each reluctantly acknowledging the other's right to exist, but it requires a significant change in policy too. The Israelis need to stop taking land from Palestinians and recognise that they're a nation borne out of conquest, land grabs and transparent inequality. The Palestinians need to recognise that Israel now has a right to exist, and that terrorist activities against civilians are never acceptable. 

 

I think it would be naive to look at the situation purely from the point of view as Israel being subject to a terrorist incursion. Israel is a war machine, whose existence within the currrent political status quo is predicated on it's ability to repress it's Arab population.

 

It's grim. Truly.

So where do you think Isreal should be J ? 

You don’t see a link in regards the normalisation of relations with the Saudi regime ? Something the main backers of the perpetrators are totally opposed to. Say what you want about Israeli extremism or expansion but what you don’t see is the whole horrifying levels of Muslim barbarism being carried out on men women children and bodies that is unfortunately all over the internet. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Johnsond

[Big J]

3 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

So where do you think Isreal should be J ??

 

It's too late to be talking about that. It should never have been created in the first place. It's worth pointing that out, whilst at the same time acknowledging that it does, and will continue to exist. 

 

In order to have any chance of peace, Israel needs to respect the right of Palestinians to have their own state, as well as halting all land thefts. Reparations wouldn't go amiss either. 

[Johnsond]

6 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

It's too late to be talking about that. It should never have been created in the first place. It's worth pointing that out, whilst at the same time acknowledging that it does, and will continue to exist. 

 

In order to have any chance of peace, Israel needs to respect the right of Palestinians to have their own state, as well as halting all land thefts. Reparations wouldn't go amiss either. 

Not easy to achieve when you are surrounded by regimes  whose stated wish is the eradication of your whole country and its people. Or whose recent past involved the extermination of over 6 million men women and children during WW2. Which was pretty much the catalyst for its existence. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Johnsond

[Big J]

9 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Not easy to achieve when you are surrounded by regimes  whose stated wish is the eradication of your whole country and its people. Or whose recent past involved the extermination of over 6 million men women and children during WW2. Which was pretty much the catalyst for its existence. 

 

Yeah, it's a completely f**ked up situation. 

 

Fundamentally, almost everyone involved is innocent and powerless, and it's the actions of war-minded men that are causing all the suffering. 

 

Whilst Palestinians might still be subject to oppression if Israel wasn't there, I cannot imagine that it would be worse than what they presently experience. 

 

And in 1948, whose bright idea was it to create a Jewish Holy Land in the middle of a bloody Islamic region? Surely it would have been about 99% less hassle to have given them an enclave within the US? You could fit Israel 11 times into Wyoming with space to spare. 

[Johnsond]

7 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Yeah, it's a completely f**ked up situation. 

 

Fundamentally, almost everyone involved is innocent and powerless, and it's the actions of war-minded men that are causing all the suffering. 

 

Whilst Palestinians might still be subject to oppression if Israel wasn't there, I cannot imagine that it would be worse than what they presently experience. 

 

And in 1948, whose bright idea was it to create a Jewish Holy Land in the middle of a bloody Islamic region? Surely it would have been about 99% less hassle to have given them an enclave within the US? You could fit Israel 11 times into Wyoming with space to spare. 

Did not the Jews, Christian and a Palestinians live in the region “ levant “ together previously?

 Fundamentally, almost everyone involved is innocent and powerless, and it's the actions of war-minded men that are causing all the suffering.

 🤷‍♂️is this not humanity as we know it sadly. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Johnsond