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Hand cutters for hardwood thinning


njtimber
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Hmmm,

I am not sure colleges are the right place to learn production cutting, perhaps they attract the wrong type of person. Certainly the best fallers I have come across in my time learnt their skills long before colleges were teaching it.

Piece rate was the best way of learning the trade,..you either learnt or starved.

Yes there is a variation in rates , there is also a variation in ability. I have literally worked from the north coast of Scotland to the south coast of England, and to a degree rates seem to be slightly regional, but then again which ever area you work in if the going rate could not support you living in that area then there isn't a job for you.There was a guy on another blog last week who has been cutting since the late eighties getting £100 per shift, felling for the harvester and putting a can of fuel through by 1pm.,,thats just not right.

Now heres the crunch, the op asked if there are any skilled cutters able to work unsupervised and productive. The answer is yes there are, but if you were to say to a lot of people asking that question those kind of guys want 160 - 200 if its day rate they suddenly decide they will need to shop around,believe me I come across it on a regular basis.

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I think the lack of good cutters could also why employers are reluctant to pay piece work. There are a lot of inexperienced cutters who will see the pound signs and rush the job at the expense of safe working to fell as many in a day.

 

I think a lot of it is more to do with the type of work cutters are doung now,like backing off for harvesters, jobs as described by the op ,cut and winch where different parties are involved.

Piece still gets paid to harvesting contractors whatever, but unless cutters are felling the whole site how do you quantify who has done what?

It still works in large hardwood on measure, and so it should.

There was always a historical problem of cutters not getting settled up for everything on site,.millions of tonnes of timber have evaporated down the years.

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Im not stating colleges are teaching production cutting, its just how wrong an idea of it they have of it so when people come on site they dont have a clue.

 

You get what you pay for, so most will shop around as there isnt enough money in the job

Edited by steve collins
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I think a lot of people don't realise hand cutting,as a living, it's a totally different discipline from other aspects of tree work and therefore although some skills are transferable but a totally new set are required to be successful.

 

It's tough. You need to be physically adept to work long hours offen in tough conditions. We have very keen lads that just are not used to concentrating and working for 9 hours a day flat out. They tire make mistakes and find it even tougher.

 

Also you need very good personal admin. And offen people are disorganised. Simple things like have premixed fuel or using shots, switching to spare chains not field sharpening. All little time savers that help and increase productivity. Knowing what a sharp chain is! Sorting out your kit at night so it's dry before you start. Strong enough to use a 60cc saw what ever your flavour, to sned and fell so your not constantly changing saws. Lots of little things add up to a big difference.

 

And finally many of us who do it full time don't really sub out. We offen find a few good clients who pay well, do our own jobs and sell roadside direct to market or concentrate what spare time we have on better paid jobs such as wind felled.

 

It can pay but the apprenticeship can be tough.

 

Finally you do need a phone on you but you better be bleeding if it comes out of your pocket!

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I think a lot of people don't realise hand cutting,as a living, it's a totally different discipline from other aspects of tree work and therefore although some skills are transferable but a totally new set are required to be successful.

 

It's tough. You need to be physically adept to work long hours offen in tough conditions. We have very keen lads that just are not used to concentrating and working for 9 hours a day flat out. They tire make mistakes and find it even tougher.

 

Also you need very good personal admin. And offen people are disorganised. Simple things like have premixed fuel or using shots, switching to spare chains not field sharpening. All little time savers that help and increase productivity. Knowing what a sharp chain is! Sorting out your kit at night so it's dry before you start. Strong enough to use a 60cc saw what ever your flavour, to sned and fell so your not constantly changing saws. Lots of little things add up to a big difference.

 

And finally many of us who do it full time don't really sub out. We offen find a few good clients who pay well, do our own jobs and sell roadside direct to market or concentrate what spare time we have on better paid jobs such as wind felled.

 

It can pay but the apprenticeship can be tough.

 

Finally you do need a phone on you but you better be bleeding if it comes out of your pocket!

 

This I think hits the nail on the head.

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I totally agree with what timber man says a lot of young people are not interested in hard graft.

commercial cutting is a hard game , been doing it myself for 28 year's it's starting to take it out on my

old bones and joints now. As for the rate's you get paid it's up to you to decide if it's worth it.

I know how much I'm worth a day and so do the contractor's I work for. The way things are going cutters

will be a thing of the past because not many if any new lads wanting to do the job. I've seen some come

out of college after getting their saw tickets and they haven't a clue. It takes more than a week or two

to get clued up in this game

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It's tough. You need to be physically adept to work long hours offen in tough conditions. We have very keen lads that just are not used to concentrating and working for 9 hours a day flat out. They tire make mistakes and find it even tougher.

 

S*d that, I never did have the stamina for that long when pulp cutting or felling sawlogs. It was two tanks-break-two tanks break-three tanks-go home. That would give about 10 tonnes in small pulpwood and in my day (78-97) it started out this would give a better living than a bus driver or a graduate less than 10 years out of university, at the end it was about the same wage as a council worker.

 

 

Also you need very good personal admin. And offen people are disorganised. Simple things like have premixed fuel or using shots, switching to spare chains not field sharpening. All little time savers that help and increase productivity. Knowing what a sharp chain is! Sorting out your kit at night so it's dry before you start. Strong enough to use a 60cc saw what ever your flavour, to sned and fell so your not constantly changing saws. Lots of little things add up to a big difference.

 

And finally many of us who do it full time don't really sub out. We offen find a few good clients who pay well, do our own jobs and sell roadside direct to market or concentrate what spare time we have on better paid jobs such as wind felled.

 

Agree the saw size, I always used husky 162 or 262 unless early softwood thinnings when I'd drop to 240 size. Never wasted time changing chains, always sharpened on bar when catching breath.

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I've been trying to get into this for ages but found it to be hard to get the break.I am at a disadvantage as I only have cs30 31 which I got in 1996 while at college for gamekeeping.There was no YTS course for keeper in at the college back then so we all did Nvq 2 forestry so while i am qualified i have no proper experience of commercial cutting and hAve no reAl way of learning...plus having 4 kids doesnt make it any easier.Ive only ever done manual work and I can graft but it's getting the opportunity and a good bloke to teach me that's the problem for me

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NJ I have sent you a pm. I am based in wilts/Dorset and been in the game for a few years. Mainly as a groundy but I love the hand cutting side of the game and love tree felling as its what I have been brought up with with my old man being a hand cutter for the last 35 years. So if anyone wants a hard working pair of hands give me a shout. I have small and large felling tickets. And like to think I do a good job.

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