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jonno141

subcontracting to the same company

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I'm all for self employed groundies and climbers, but I doubt there are any out there that have relationship with with the main contractor ( I dont like to use the word boss, as that implies employment) that would allow them to send a substitute!

 

I have self employed groundies and climbers, I use then because I know of their skillset. If I book them for a day and someone else turns up I would not be impressed!

 

Of course, if the replacement did the work to the same standard or efficiency then thats fine, but then I might as well hire the replacement next time, as I am sure he would be a self employed worker for my self employed worker so therefore able to take on his own clients.

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I'm all for self employed groundies and climbers, but I doubt there are any out there that have relationship with with the main contractor ( I dont like to use the word boss, as that implies employment) that would allow them to send a substitute!

 

I have self employed groundies and climbers, I use then because I know of their skillset. If I book them for a day and someone else turns up I would not be impressed!

 

Of course, if the replacement did the work to the same standard or efficiency then thats fine, but then I might as well hire the replacement next time, as I am sure he would be a self employed worker for my self employed worker so therefore able to take on his own clients.

 

Only you and your workers know the full relationship, but if wont accept a substitute and have a fair degree of control over how, where an when the work is done, then your 'self employed' guys are sounding more like employees. As their employer you could find yourself in deep water if the revenue challenged you.

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The whole thing is a right mess from a employers point of view. I use freelance guys because they, turn up on time without fail, they bring and use there own gear and look after it, they work to the standard I expect, there not on the phone drinking red bull every 5 mins. And when work goes I don't have to pay them to not work. These days employees have more rights than the employer thus discouraging people from emloying. I really don't want the hassle that comes with employing. I'm not saying that all employees are like this!

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The origins are in case law but explained during a seminar run by an outfit called Accountax. Its also covered in lots of other arenas concerning IR35 and tax status cases.

 

Great, thank you for that. I actually met 'Accountax' at the APF Show last year, they seem a very switched on organisation.

 

Appreciate that..:thumbup1:

Paul

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Accountax consultancy website is very useful. Worth a read and flick through different sections. Theyre on the ball,it would appear

 

From their web site:

 

Employment Status

.....Problems can arise when subcontractors engaged by companies decide after the event that they believe that they were actually 'employed' and then make a claim in the Employment Tribunal for a whole host of employment rights......... If you handle the employment status issue poorly you will end up paying out for holiday pay, notice and for other employment rights.

 

‘Worker’ Status - Holiday Pay

Do you engage self-employed subcontractors? If you do, are you satisfied that those subcontractors are not ‘workers’?

 

Many businesses, particularly in the construction industry, are facing hoards of claims from subcontractors who are claiming holiday pay. The reason they are making these claims is because they do not need to prove they are an ‘employee’. They only need to prove that they were a ‘worker’, a distinct category, which is a considerably lower threshold.

 

Failure to ensure that your subcontractors are not classified as ‘workers’ will leave you exposed to claims for holiday pay.

 

Employers be aware.. It's not jut the HMRC who will shaft you..

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From their web site:

 

 

 

Employers be aware.. It's not jut the HMRC who will shaft you..

 

Another good reason to fully understand the differences between employment and self employment and make sure that both parties to a working arrangement are clear on what the arrangement means.

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The whole thing is a right mess from a employers point of view. I use freelance guys because they, turn up on time without fail, they bring and use there own gear and look after it, they work to the standard I expect, there not on the phone drinking red bull every 5 mins. And when work goes I don't have to pay them to not work. These days employees have more rights than the employer thus discouraging people from emloying. I really don't want the hassle that comes with employing. I'm not saying that all employees are like this!

 

Dont employ anyone as its a pain in the rrrs. Build good relationships with your self employed team, pay them fairly and show them respect and you'll have a winning setup. Just get your self employed contracts sorted properly!

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I use written contracts do kind of get round it. But only because I have 3 employees now so they never do the 75% ish anyway. More contract work than freelancing really.

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