Buying a woodland

[County 764]

I'd say the vast majority of small woodlands will cost you far more to manage than you'll get back. If you can produce your forest plan and fell and extract your timber then it might make a small return depending on species and quality.

 

There are tax advantages if you are going to pass something to the next generation then woodland is a fairly safe bet, unlike property or cash.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I'd like to buy some woodland one day.

 

I don't expect to make huge amounts of money from it, but that wouldn't be why I'm buying it. A bit of firewood, somewhere to camp / get close to nature / watch the woods change and grow, wood to mill to build sheds and fences etc. Maybe a bit of income from thinnings and so on.

 

Having said that, it's unlikely that the value of woodland will fall over time. And I believe it's free from inheritance tax when you die (if commercially managed), and is subject to reduced CGT - on the value of the land only, not the timber it contains.

 

 

Spot on! And totally agree with "woodyguy" post#20 as well!

[Welshwoodsman]

Well I can give you some advice. I was in a position to invest several years ago, and thought about property, but then what I really wanted was a woodland of my own- somewhere to grow trees, do some camping, be self sufficient in firewood for the forseable future.

3 years ago I bought a 30 acre woodland in south wales. For the amount of land, it was extremely cheap. Its a mountainside woodland, ranging from moderately steep, to almost vertical, and it was planted in 1960 by the FC with norway spruce and western hemlock. The wood has never been thinned, and has had no maintenance since 1960, despite having been through 3 owners in this time, two of them landed estates. Trees are all very close together, never thinnned, and the trees are some of the best yield class in wales today, 80ft high and 2,3,4,5 ft diameter- so big trees! There is minimal internal access, although I am working on this and making rides and tracks- the access out of the wood is down a tiny parish road, very steep, and over a Grade II listed canal bridge with a 7 tonne limit.

The standing timber is valued at approx 150, 000, yes that is £150,000 - but there is a catch, well there always is isnt there- because of the site characteristics, the cost of felling and extraction of the timber is estimated to cost anout what the timber is worth-

SO, i am sitting on a fortune, but can't actually get it, unless i do all the work myself. Not realistically going to happen-

So,i just potter about, cut trees and make logs, dig some dirt and extend a few rides - and do some camping, and just enjoy my own haven. I have gifted the woodland to my 8 year old daughter, so she has her own woodland, and it will certainly increase in value as she grown, and will be a nice nest egg for her. To give a rough idea, since 1960, its gone from £150 when the FC bought it, to 12,000 in 1975 when the FC sold it, to 20,000 when the next owner sold it in 1985 and then the owner before us paid 35,000 for it in 2006, so there is value, but it depends on your outlook. Insurance is minimal, and if i just left it and did nothing, i am sure it would be soon worth 75k within 10 years, so its a good family investment, and my daughters friends at school think its well cool that she owns her own wood- but its costing me money at the moment, not making it, with fencing, new chainsaw toys, big shiny equipment etc etc.

 

Conifer woodlands are always cheaper than broadleaf, but you can fell and replant with broadleafs, so if you have had a look on the two big sites selling woodlands, you will know what they sell for- buy one of them, and you are very unlikely to make money.

Check local estate agents, or

John clegg and co (who sell all the FC woodlands)

Or

Raymond Braker & Co.

[Tagger]

I spotted a bit of woodland on the John Clegg web site that looks interesting (just over 9 acres, £65k). It looks like it's mostly conifer.

 

As a potential small woodland owner, would there be any money in selling the standing timber to a contractor?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I spotted a bit of woodland on the John Clegg web site that looks interesting (just over 9 acres, £65k). It looks like it's mostly conifer.

 

 

 

As a potential small woodland owner, would there be any money in selling the standing timber to a contractor?

 

 

The answer to that question is in the detail of the great post above. It's all down to ease or difficulty of extraction, accessibility, road transport etc. If there was real "return" on the investment it would either already have been extracted and the value realised, or it wouldn't be for sale because there is potential for return when the trees mature.

[Welshwoodsman]

I spotted a bit of woodland on the John Clegg web site that looks interesting (just over 9 acres, £65k). It looks like it's mostly conifer.

 

As a potential small woodland owner, would there be any money in selling the standing timber to a contractor?

 

There will always be money in the timber- its just a question of how much.

Depends on the tree species, and what grade they are.

Whether you would go for

Standing sale

Felling and extracting

Felling and rideside sale

Woudl depend on who was interested in the timber.

If its a nice easy wood, with easy road access, and room for an artic to load up, then there is definite value.

If its John Clegg, then its quite possible the Commission selling on a small wood ( contrary to popular belief, the FC has always bought and sold woods continually, just to have ready cash and produce a balanced portfolio)

 

I would give this wood a serious look. You could potentially make back a good chunk of the purchase price, and get grant funding to replant, and then nurture your own trees

 

If its still on their website, I tried to buy "Banc y Llan" several years ago, and chased it through several agents- i made them a serious offer, which was turned down, 12 months later, they moved agents to John Clegg, and put it on the market for 20k less than I offered them -?

[tz1_1zt]

There is minimal internal access, although I am working on this and making rides and tracks- the access out of the wood is down a tiny parish road, very steep, and over a Grade II listed canal bridge with a 7 tonne limit.

We've sold our Logrite Fetching arch to customers doing this. It's built very tough for winching through steep woodland with a big log suspended.

 

I'll not link to them directly, but my avatar sends you to our business page (or wait for our banner to appear above).

 

Not the answer to your commercial extraction problems, but at least it will make removal of big logs a lot easier. It can be setup as a forwarding arch and towed away carrying a log once on tracks, but not on public highway.

David

Edited March 20, 2014 by tz1_1zt

[Tagger]

I went to have a look at the woodland advertised by John Clegg today. It had

• a tiny block of mature broadleaf trees next to the road,

• a couple of blocks of conifers, perhaps 16 to 20 inches diameter, and

• a block of mixed small broadleaves which looked like a mixture of planting and natural birch regrowth

 

I'm guessing the reason that the conifers haven't been felled is the access. The wood ends at a good road, with a layby. But the only access into the woods is via a steep narrow track. A decent 4x4 could get up it, and I might even give it a go in my Freelander in dry weather. But there's no chance of an artic getting anywhere into the woods.

[ArthurBottlesworth]

Wonder what changes to pension fund rules will do?

 

I think People will cash in their pensions and buy woodland ( no death duties )

Spoke to estate agent today, they see buy to let booming

 

Can't see prices land/woodland falling anyway ....

 

Guy in post office says he's ploughing all his money into pension for next few years then drawing it out for early retirement, my missis thinks gov't will encourage this then slam door on him, leaving him back in annuity market ....and screwed

[Countryboy]

I bought 10 acres 3 years ago. The woodland was very overgrown with a lot of scrub and some very large broad leaved trees. The idea was to keep me busy now I have retired and that is certainly the case.

 

Equipment has cost a small fortune, i.e chainsaws, scrub clearers and a digger, but I just love being in the wood.

 

My Grandsons (6 of them) spend a lot of time in the wood and camp there whenever possible. The local Scouts use the wood a couple of times a year to carry out their activities so it gets well used.

 

We have family and friends B-B-Qs in the summer and everyone appears to enjoy themselves.

 

Both my Sons and myself have logburners and the amount of wood lying around has kept us going without cutting and trees down. I am going through the process of obtaining a Management Plan and hope to submit it this week for approval complete with a 10 year felling licence.

 

Yes the wood has cost a fair amount of money but I would not be without it for anything.