Firewood armegeddan

[muldonach]

If farmers stopped flailing their hedges every year, there would be plenty of wood.

 

Plif plaf ploof

 

I have a few hedges that have not been flailed or treated in any way for around 50 years.

 

We have brought almost all of them back into some kind of management - mainly by cutting to a low stump with a slope and allowing it to start again. The firewood content was minimal and certainly a lot more bother than it was worth.

 

As regards forestry grants we spent the best part of a year developing a long term forest plan as required in Scotland - went through all the consultations etc and ended up binning it because at the end of the day it is the FC way or no way. There is grant assistance for new planting but it is heavily weighed towards the central belt of scotland.

 

Farming subsidies - the stuff of dreams - they are there, the basis varies from country to country but as a generality they are under some pressure at the moment, here in Scotland most farmers are looking at reductions of 25-50% under present proposals.

 

Going back to the OP good stove sales have to be a plus point for firewood producers but there is point (which we may have partially reached) at which market forces take over and foreign imports will put a top on the market.

 

Firewood is not and is unlikely to become a mainstream fuel in the UK nor do we have the resources for it to do so I would suggest, which is not to say that there does not remain plenty of opportunity for further market developement, but generally on a local scale - how many of us can deliver more than a few miles away without having to increase price to maintain margin?

 

I certainly hope so - if anyone would like some bulk softwood we may well be able to assist in the medium term.

 

Cheers

mac

[farmer rod]

Spot on!

 

not wanting to start anything, but...

 

most farmers get their living from looking after the soil and crops or animals, knowing that this years shortcuts will lead to next years shortages.

[Marko]

Hi marko

what your doing sounds like the way forward,fancy sharing some facts and figure about the venture,with us.

 

Sorry nothing so scientific - no plan just seat of the pants getting in as many plants as I can each year. It used to be easier when I grew ash from seed as they were pots so much more flexible on timing. Once ash was a no-go I have had to buy in bare rooted plants in order to maintain a decent yearly planting (last year and this year). Hope to be back using my own grown trees next year.

[StephF]

Well carrying on with this theme,yesterday a local farmer had a massive 360 just pull over and rip up a line of mature ash trees and semi mature ones,then dug roots out.Looked like a ww1 photo.

Piled up the lot into a massive heap ready for burning,today have been levelling to standard of a billiard table.

No dieback,no rot,just few hundred tons of bonfire material.

One tree in this line had gone over in gales and i asked him a fortnight ago if he wanted it cleared up and ide pay him for the timber,he simply said 'no' and walked away from me.

That went on the heap too.

 

I agree have come accross this so often,sadly this is a typical attitude encountered all over UK. As a firewood producer and realising the pressure on us to obtain this dwindling resource I am angry/sad to see so much waste eg: from arb arisings I see in the green waste centres that will go in landfill, windblow left to rot or burn on farmland after recent storms, FC harvesting sites the harvester has been through leaving huge amounts of perfectly good logging material etc. etc. Dont get me on the foreign imported stuff!!!

[Alycidon]

If farmers stopped flailing their hedges every year, there would be plenty of wood.

 

Plif plaf ploof

 

 

Been clearing up some blackthorn the wind ripped out last week, hedge has not been cut in 50 years to my knowledge, in a steepish valley bottom, maybe 25 feet tall.

 

Took five hours to cut maybe a cube or two at max of timber out of it, nothing above about 5 inch. Sycamore or Ash in a hedge then yes but blackthorn and most livestock proof hedges are predominantly blackthorn then no.

 

A

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I agree have come accross this so often,sadly this is a typical attitude encountered all over UK. As a firewood producer and realising the pressure on us to obtain this dwindling resource I am angry/sad to see so much waste eg: from arb arisings I see in the green waste centres that will go in landfill, windblow left to rot or burn on farmland after recent storms, FC harvesting sites the harvester has been through leaving huge amounts of perfectly good logging material etc. etc. Dont get me on the foreign imported stuff!!!

 

 

Go on Steph!! Get stuck in!!!

[santacruz]

Remember that people wouldn't seem to waste material if we as firewood merchants made it economical for them to be extracted from harvesting sites by paying more for it at roadside. Its only wasted because its not economical to extract. Remember on a clearfell of 10,000 tons someone phoning up looking for 25t of chipwood isn't going to exite you that much. If you want something you have to pay enough for it so that the owner of that material is making enough profit to think that its worth doing. At the moment the price of chipwood is lowish compared to the cost of extracting it so a lot goes under the wheels of the harvester. Then the area gets ground prepped and this material becomes more obvious as it sticks out of the raked up brash. Its the same with the FC firewood framework contract where you bid on left overs from harvesting. The FC obviously doesn't make a lot of money on this and therefore the organisation is crap, and they don't care.

I think that the reason we struggle to reliably and consistently purchase timber because we are such tiny players in the massive forestry game. And many firewood merchants aren't from a forestry background. Therefore we are seen as more hassle that its worth.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Remember that people wouldn't seem to waste material if we as firewood merchants made it economical for them to be extracted from harvesting sites by paying more for it at roadside. Its only wasted because its not economical to extract. Remember on a clearfell of 10,000 tons someone phoning up looking for 25t of chipwood isn't going to exite you that much. If you want something you have to pay enough for it so that the owner of that material is making enough profit to think that its worth doing. At the moment the price of chipwood is lowish compared to the cost of extracting it so a lot goes under the wheels of the harvester. Then the area gets ground prepped and this material becomes more obvious as it sticks out of the raked up brash. Its the same with the FC firewood framework contract where you bid on left overs from harvesting. The FC obviously doesn't make a lot of money on this and therefore the organisation is crap, and they don't care.

 

I think that the reason we struggle to reliably and consistently purchase timber because we are such tiny players in the massive forestry game. And many firewood merchants aren't from a forestry background. Therefore we are seen as more hassle that its worth.

 

 

 

All sounds very accurate & sensible.

[StephF]

Remember that people wouldn't seem to waste material if we as firewood merchants made it economical for them to be extracted from harvesting sites by paying more for it at roadside. Its only wasted because its not economical to extract. Remember on a clearfell of 10,000 tons someone phoning up looking for 25t of chipwood isn't going to exite you that much. If you want something you have to pay enough for it so that the owner of that material is making enough profit to think that its worth doing. At the moment the price of chipwood is lowish compared to the cost of extracting it so a lot goes under the wheels of the harvester. Then the area gets ground prepped and this material becomes more obvious as it sticks out of the raked up brash. Its the same with the FC firewood framework contract where you bid on left overs from harvesting. The FC obviously doesn't make a lot of money on this and therefore the organisation is crap, and they don't care.

I think that the reason we struggle to reliably and consistently purchase timber because we are such tiny players in the massive forestry game. And many firewood merchants aren't from a forestry background. Therefore we are seen as more hassle that its worth.

 

FC are now only selling firewood in Kielder District to the highest sealed bid, (since October 2013) this is a small limited quantity, 20 loads every 6 months of which your company is individually allocated a quantity you are allowed to bid for, this was a fraction of our normal purchased quantity!! This new policy we are told, is due to the massive demand from biomass etc etc...on the limited available timber crop.

We end up paying as much or more than chipwood prices from FC,for firewood, the price has nearly doubled in past 6-7 years, Plus big increases in haulage costs means the raw product is now very expensive. We have no choice but to pay the going prices, our log sales make up a good part of company turnover.

After nearly 30 years of working in arboriculture/ forestry and firewood, I cant see how Firewood/biomass has a sustainable future if the number of stoves and heating systems continues to increase, especially as FC planting programmes have been decreasing in size, with no increases planned, and felled areas often re-planted with slow growing and almost always, very sad looking hardwoods that fail to thrive to appease 'public', which simply dont thrive in the wet peaty conditions up here.

[Marko]

Having been at the Iggesund plant at Workington this week I believe Keilder is doing very well out of Biomass. Between this boiler and the EON Lockerbie boiler Kelder seems to be doing very well. I am sure if we have any of the transporters on they will confirm.

 

As an aside it took 8 minutes to turn around a full load of 4 bays of 3m cord - gatehouse to gatehouse. Impressive operation and very nice people.