public liability insurance

[MWArb]

This might help: HM Revenue & Customs: Employment Status Indicator

 

That only covers definition of self employment.. we're all self employed in this instance but it's was the finer details of EL insurance cover that interested me.

[felixthelogchopper]

That only covers definition of self employment.. we're all self employed in this instance but it's was the finer details of EL insurance cover that interested me.

 

You need to be looking at Employer's Liability with regard to the Law of Tort for that.

[Coletti]

Just my two pence worth but when I got my pl if my memory serves me well my pl company asked if I needed el and i asked if I needed el for subbys to which they replied no. She then went on to explain that as long as a subby has his own pl for the type of work he and i are carrying out then my pl covers him how ever if he doesn't posses pl then mine won't cover him.

 

 

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[MWArb]

I would say he is still integral. You wouldn't have him do the job at a separate time to when the tree work itself is done and it is easy to argue that he is there as a part of a team effort. The point about the stump grinder is that he can turn up anytime after the tree is down and do the job without direction other than 'grind that stump' whereas the groundie and climber are difficult to separate from each other. To go into further detail I would need my Tort text books which haven't been unpacked yet.

 

I'd be interested in finding out finer details at some point Felix once those books are liberated.. and you have the free time to look of course.. I'm keen to understand just how much (or how little) of a job can be contracted out with regards to insurance cover.. not that I'd actually take chances on a technicality, just a thirst for knowledge

[MWArb]

I would say he is still integral. You wouldn't have him do the job at a separate time to when the tree work itself is done and it is easy to argue that he is there as a part of a team effort. The point about the stump grinder is that he can turn up anytime after the tree is down and do the job without direction other than 'grind that stump' whereas the groundie and climber are difficult to separate from each other. To go into further detail I would need my Tort text books which haven't been unpacked yet.

 

I'd be interested in finding out finer details at some point Felix once those books are liberated.. and you have the free time to look of course.. I'm keen to understand just how much (or how little) of a job can be contracted out with regards to insurance cover.. not that I'd actually take chances on a technicality, just a thirst for knowledge do you know of an online reference for the law of tort? Also looking myself but saves time if someone already has one haha

[felixthelogchopper]

Just my two pence worth but when I got my pl if my memory serves me well my pl company asked if I needed el and i asked if I needed el for subbys to which they replied no. She then went on to explain that as long as a subby has his own pl for the type of work he and i are carrying out then my pl covers him how ever if he doesn't posses pl then mine won't cover him.

 

 

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Employer's Liability covers your liability to the employee, not for what they do. I think you would have found that you would have benn liable via your PL for anything that they did while working for you. The issue is what constitutes a bona fide subcontractor rather than an employee. It is true that you don't need EL for a bona fide subcontractor but the phrases 'subcontractor' and 'self employed' are not interchangeable. As soon as somebody is working under your direction then in the eyes of the law they are an employee. There are many indicators as to status of employment, revolving around who decides when and how the job is done etc.

[felixthelogchopper]

I'd be interested in finding out finer details at some point Felix once those books are liberated.. and you have the free time to look of course.. I'm keen to understand just how much (or how little) of a job can be contracted out with regards to insurance cover.. not that I'd actually take chances on a technicality, just a thirst for knowledge

 

Will do, mate. Don't hold your breath though as we are halfway through moving 2 houses into 1 at the moment. Amazed at how much stuff there is to move( 2 of everything like fridges, washing machines etc) but highly gratifying to see how much fishing gear I have collected over the years.

[Coletti]

Well I guess technically a bona fide subby is someone that comes out, prices for part or the whole job eg stump grinding as mentioned earlier and then carries out at their own expense but when I work for others eg climbing or grounding, I still class my self as a subby and not employed. This appears to be a rather foggy area haha. Suppose technically no one in the arb industry an manage without el due to not using a saw alone there for always having the need to employ someone else's services

 

 

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[MWArb]

Will do, mate. Don't hold your breath though as we are halfway through moving 2 houses into 1 at the moment. Amazed at how much stuff there is to move( 2 of everything like fridges, washing machines etc) but highly gratifying to see how much fishing gear I have collected over the years.

 

Mate I feel for ya, we downsized over new year once, not fun haha

[Steve Bullman]

I think people are just over complicating this and looking for clever ways of getting our of it. Bottom line is if you're taking on your own work and using someone, just take out EL...its not going to bankrupt you and should be worked into your pricing anyway. If you dont want to do things properly then go and take an employed position IMO