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marc laycock

arboricultural association

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Ok here is my question who is a member of the arboricultural association and why?

It seem's to me that to go to a company to be assessed after going via NPTC/ CITY&GUILDS is paying out TWICE after already passing your qualifications to approved standards, are our I.D. cards not for the purpose of showing that we have attained these qualifications to the required standard.

It just seems to me that to pay out a yearly subscription to use there approved contractor logo, and be on there LIST, to be assessed again (taking time out from paying work) is odd, we have PROVED by taking our courses that we can do the work to BS3998 showing we are capable to work at safely, and to meet current HSE.

I ask this these questions because I have just had a contract turned down because I am not in the arboricultural association.

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Ok here is my question who is a member of the arboricultural association and why?

It seem's to me that to go to a company to be assessed after going via NPTC/ CITY&GUILDS is paying out TWICE after already passing your qualifications to approved standards, are our I.D. cards not for the purpose of showing that we have attained these qualifications to the required standard.

It just seems to me that to pay out a yearly subscription to use there approved contractor logo, and be on there LIST, to be assessed again (taking time out from paying work) is odd, we have PROVED by taking our courses that we can do the work to BS3998 showing we are capable to work at safely, and to meet current HSE.

I ask this these questions because I have just had a contract turned down because I am not in the arboricultural association.

 

If it means you are going to loss work by not being a member

id become one :thumbup::thumbup:

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If it means you are going to loss work by not being a member

id become one :thumbup::thumbup:

But I think your missing my point, WHO appointed them as the law to what good practice is, my point really is anyone could create a website lets call it "british arboricultural association" and create an approved list of contractors and make up certificates for people who IN THERE OPINON are competent .

However WE HAVE ALREADY PROVED we are capable of doing the job to the required (by law) standard by going and taking our city&guilds

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Ok here is my question who is a member of the arboricultural association and why?

It seem's to me that to go to a company to be assessed after going via NPTC/ CITY&GUILDS is paying out TWICE after already passing your qualifications to approved standards, are our I.D. cards not for the purpose of showing that we have attained these qualifications to the required standard.

It just seems to me that to pay out a yearly subscription to use there approved contractor logo, and be on there LIST, to be assessed again (taking time out from paying work) is odd, we have PROVED by taking our courses that we can do the work to BS3998 showing we are capable to work at safely, and to meet current HSE.

I ask this these questions because I have just had a contract turned down because I am not in the arboricultural association.

 

Being a member is not the same as being an approved contractor/registered consultant. Membership generally has no assessment (unless you are relying on experience instead of qualifications).

 

Do you really believe that having an NPTC ticket is evidence that you can carry out good quality work? From my experience, I came out of college with the tickets and a C&G qualification but I was a pretty useless tree worker - that only came with years of learning how to do the job properly from my senior co-workers.

 

Anyway, to answer your question - I am a member because I appreciate getting the journal, magazine and discounts for CPD events. I am not an approved contractor but I did work for one in the past and was the named manager for the AAAC scheme. The assessment is about a lot more than assessing tree work - there's alot of focus on H&S, office systems, record keeping etc...

 

Hope that helps?

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But I think your missing my point, WHO appointed them as the law to what good practice is, my point really is anyone could create a website lets call it "british arboricultural association" and create an approved list of contractors and make up certificates for people who IN THERE OPINON are competent .

However WE HAVE ALREADY PROVED we are capable of doing the job to the required (by law) standard by going and taking our city&guilds

 

you have some good points,but passing nptc tickets does not always translate to good safe working practice on various differcult Jobs

i think arboricultural association confirm that you are capable of a wide range of Tree Work,

Im sure as am i you are very Capable and you prove that day in day out

but some organisations want to see this in writing:thumbup:

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Marc

 

in what context as an individual member or as AAAc contractor

 

NPTc & lantra certificates or now Licence to practice certs etc are modular courses based around individual attainment of a criteria by displaying a skills set & conveying their underpinning knowledge & not reflective of the Team or the business capablitys or abilities in operation ,,

 

as an NPTC assessor myself I have suggested that a team in-situ assessment could be developed for practical assessment ,, this gives some indication to customers of the wider operational ability.

 

this does leave clients with a ronseal tin test dilemma to support how well a company operates its systems communication and support of frontline operations.

 

SO clients often pre check a companys ability before issuing termed contracts, so they can often take the quickest route which is external verification of the companies support systems, policies protocols and documentation,,

 

as you rightly point out The AA are a private group that provide such a test

there are however others such as CHAs , and Iso audits for compliance to internationally recognised standards such as ISO 18001 H&S , 9001 Quality & 14001 environment management

 

DO you hold any pre accreditations as a company or sole trader or otherwise , by which procurement departments can verify your standing ?

these are often point scored during procurement / tendering exercises , if not you can lose out !!

 

What were you told ,, outright no because of none AA ???

 

if so was that made clear from the outset ?, if not you could perhaps appeal it ,

dependant on who the client is, [ public monies] they may not be able to preclude you just because you don't currently hold an accreditation which is none mandatory for UK companies in this sector

 

All company pre qualifications / accreditations are by desire of the managers owners or directors or the business need and are not by mandatory by statute or other law

Edited by Yorkshireman

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Being a member is not the same as being an approved contractor/registered consultant. Membership generally has no assessment (unless you are relying on experience instead of qualifications).

 

Do you really believe that having an NPTC ticket is evidence that you can carry out good quality work? From my experience, I came out of college with the tickets and a C&G qualification but I was a pretty useless tree worker - that only came with years of learning how to do the job properly from my senior co-workers.

 

Anyway, to answer your question - I am a member because I appreciate getting the journal, magazine and discounts for CPD events. I am not an approved contractor but I did work for one in the past and was the named manager for the AAAC scheme. The assessment is about a lot more than assessing tree work - there's alot of focus on H&S, office systems, record keeping etc...

 

Hope that helps?

Paul I agree with you 100% that just because you have earned the BASIC qualifications We still have a lot to learn and every day is a school day in this job. but WHY do I need someone who is NOT an NPTC/CITY&GUILDS ASSESSOR to re assess me, H&S I cover by trying to keep up with office work I have a wife who does the books/record keeping, should this not be enough without having to be arboricultural association approved IMHO.

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you have some good points,but passing nptc tickets does not always translate to good safe working practice on various differcult Jobs

i think arboricultural association confirm that you are capable of a wide range of Tree Work,

Im sure as am i you are very Capable and you prove that day in day out

but some organisations want to see this in writing:thumbup:

I am always happy to give any customer the names and phone numbers of any of my customers who want to know, if they where happy with the finished work, I really just cannot get my head around why I need a company not an approved government bodies approval

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Marc

 

in what context as an individual member or as AAAc contractor

 

NPTc & lantra certificates or now Licence to practice certs etc are modular courses based around individual attainment of a criteria by displaying a skills set & conveying their underpinning knowledge & not reflective of the Team or the business capablitys or abilities in operation ,,

 

as an NPTC assessor myself I have suggested that a team in-situ assessment could be developed for practical assessment ,, this gives some indication to customers of the wider operational ability.

 

this does leave clients with a ronseal tin test dilemma to support how well a company operates its systems communication and support of frontline operations.

 

SO clients often pre check a companys ability before issuing termed contracts, so they can often take the quickest route which is external verification of the companies support systems, policies protocols and documentation,,

 

as you rightly point out The AA are a private group that provide such a test

there are however others such as CHAs , and Iso audits for compliance to internationally recognised standards such as ISO 18001 H&S , 9001 Quality & 14001 environment management

 

DO you hold any pre accreditations as a company or sole trader or otherwise , by which procurement departments can verify your standing ?

these are often point scored during procurement / tendering exercises , if not you can lose out !!

 

What were you told ,, outright no because of none AA ???

 

if so was that made clear from the outset ?, if not you could perhaps appeal it ,

dependant on who the client is, [ public monies] they may not be able to preclude you just because you don't currently hold an accreditation which is none mandatory for UK companies in this sector

 

All company pre qualifications / accreditations are by desire of the managers owners or directors or the business need and are not by mandatory by statute or other law

Yorkshireman I think I love you, lol you get what I mean if there was a qualification via NPTC/CITY&GUILDS for how a team works together then I would get my team and myself to do it as an APPROVED QUALIIFACATION and I think as an assessor yourself maybe you could look into this, I am a sole trader with two guys working with me (who have their nptc/city&guilds tickets) and are both self employed we work well together H&S is always at the front of my mind so everyone go's home at the end of the day in one piece I don't need to work ( I work because I WANT to work) so I never feel the need to rush jobs or take risks/shortcuts.

in answer to your question = it was not an arboricultural association member = NO CONTRACT.

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