Accidents at work

[Taupotreeman]

So ........Who is responsible when a subby is on site? A subby climber may try to control the site but it is I think not his responsibility and he should follow command. Others may argue that it is the subby who has more experience especially if climbing and directing operations and should be controlling the site. But it is not his insurance should proverbial hit the fan. What a can of worms. Personally I believe that a subby climber should always follow instruction even from a less experienced supervisor but many won't. A battle has to be had and agreement has to be made.

You came in as a subby but had mucho experience of running your own company. How will this look in court when you say you were just doing what you were told. Surely you were culpable (partially to blame)in this whole sorry affair.

 

I believe that the supervisor should be giving direction on site as long as health and safety is not compromised but in this case it's clear that it was compromised from start to finish so the OP has to take his portion of blame. If the OP has the background he indicates then surely he knew the whole job was dodgy an should have pulled out.

 

 

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[APC]

Nasty! Good luck getting yourself up and running again!

[tommytopsoil]

So ........Who is responsible when a subby is on site?

 

"Principal contractors are responsible for ensuring the health and safety of everyone on site".

 

This is written in every HSE guidance note and all over Health and Safety law.

 

The main contractor is responsible. It is his responsibility. That is not to say a subcontractor or individual cannot be at fault or indeed share the blame for any health & safety breaches on site, but it is the main contractors job to have systems in place and take all reasonable precautions.

 

The main contractor has a 'Duty of Care'.

[Shane]

HSWA 1974 -

 

It shall be the duty of every employee to ensure the safety if himself and others while at work.

 

Just be aware that the courts are likely to need persuading why a safety conscious professional allowed himself to be part of a very unprofessional takedown in a situation which he knew could be lethal.

 

I'm not passing judgement, we all know the moral pressures which can be applied and I'm sure we have all 'rolled with it' to get the job done BUT when it does go wrong its the questions from the smart-arse legal boffins (referring to the clear legislation) which we must be able to answer.

 

The approach of the main contractor and his reluctance to report the accident will no doubt count against him.

 

You need professional advice on this - we are all but 'the bloke down the pub'

 

Good luck

[arbogrunt]

I hope your recovery is going well mate. Firstly, I have been in similar situations to that you described, working as a freelancer. As much as I commiserate with you situation, your own insurance should cover you for injuries at work. That said, I would be getting a good solicitor and sueing for ininsured losses. We have to be very careful who we work for, there are some awful companies out there who will gladly risk subbies to earn a days money

[felixthelogchopper]

I suspect that it is highly likely that the court will perceive a degree of contributory negligence that will affect the amount of any payout. If the OP was concerned about the safety of the job then, regardless of the financial impact , they have a duty to remove themself from the danger area to minimise the risk to their own safety.

[alistairmagee]

I appreciate the different views and thoughts gone into your replies, ultimately in one way or another, I have paid a heavy price and have excepted my role in the chain of events which lead to my injury.

 

Another different way of looking at claiming for losses, is that evan if I had had my own injury cover then I definitely think that my insure would have sort to recover their losses with the other companies insure, as all insurance companies will do.

 

So ultimately I don't see any difference in me doing so myself, however an accident is simply that! "an accident", there is no way that i could be expected to have foreseen a tree top landing on my head despite the way in which the guy decided to go about it.

The tree was already on the ground and my situation would have been some what different if he as the chainsaw Op had called out a warning or some words of intentions which led to him dislodging the tree while snedding it. neither myself nor my groundy were using chainsaws at the time, only clearing debris as so directed my the contractor whom I was working for.

 

I hold him responsible as my employer for the days events, as would someone who works under my direction.

 

Someone mentioned the interesting point that: what if the top had landed on my groundys head! then off course i would of expected to have had the claim on my insurance as he was working for me and i am his employer, but like I said above, my insure would of gone straight after the guys insurance any way.

 

Despite what people think, for obvious reasons, I have left quite alot of detail out as not to give the other guy problems.

 

I can see now after reading peoples reactions that it does not appear to put my actions in a very favourable light, and in my defence, as i said, its not that way i would have gone about it.

 

I have learned first hand the severity of having an accident at work, a positive note to take away from all of this would be to learn from this event.

[Stephen Blair]

I always say to guys, your only insurance is to say 'No!'

[Taupotreeman]

Just had to go back and read the Op again. Was this an accident or could it have been avoided? Most crash scene investigators or incident scene investigators will tell you there's no such thing as an accident.

 

I don't want to plough up old ground but I'm going to anyway (at the risk of igniting an argument); Who made the decision to carry out what sounds like at best a plain stupid task and at worst, illegal (felling trees with a certain distance of a State Highway without proper road control is illegal in NZ I believe and a recent case I was involved in justifies that thought).

 

Who was the observer with regard to any dislodged or broken branches? Was a hazard ID carried out and all the hazards identified? Why was someone working under the tree if there was the posibility of getting cleaned out? How close to the saw operator were you?

 

I'm not sure if I've missed something here but we have H&S policies and hazard ID's in place to avoid this kind of thing.

[alistairmagee]

With respect Taupotreeman, I though new zealand was a great place when I visited, I loved sky diving in lake Taupo. that said:

 

You sound like you have a bee in your bonnet, ill agree to dis agree with your self, but by the sounds of things you give the impression that you have never been under the control as a subby for another company.

 

I do like the raw honesty of my tree surgeon fellows, but i am as experienced as the next man, and have proven this many times in my working career and at comps, but sadly this does not matter to you, one wrong of circumstance is clearly enough in your eyes to judge accordingly, I can be as judgemental as the next man, how ever i often choose not to be as its easy to criticise.

 

i do take your points and have read them now 3 times, but like I have said, it was not my decision nor me felling the tree over a highway. A risk assessment can also be one that evolves as the job develops and as some one else has said, fore sight is all very well. and i do not agree that felling a tree across a road is the way forward.

 

I posted this thread not to receive sympathy but to discuss my experiences, despite what you think, as I have not mentioned the details of who the other contractor was, he also was not a cow boy, but despite his actions this may appear so. he is a 3rd generation forester with over 30 years in the business, with 6-10 people working for him, with a turn over of nearly a million.

 

your question: was this an accident that could of been avoided, well if i could of looked into the future then yes of course, but at the time in my opinion it was not foreseeable, do you really think id want to get injured? come on lets be realistic in all of this.....

 

looking at the threads on chainsaw accidents, many experienced peoples of arbtalk have also had chainsaw and near miss accidents, im sure if we all think on, accidents can be avoided, but during the heat of the moment while doing a job its not always for seeable.

 

like I said, i have learnt a big lesson in all of this, and id hope that my experience can be a lesson to others....