loler inspection course

[Amelanchier]

What a fantistic attitude, prooves how little you know, so up for that wager yourself then? pm me your phone no & address & we'll set it up?

 

Would you take your own bet? Sounds like an easy way to lose £200 to me.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Amelanchier
sp.

[Buzzsurgeon]

What a fantistic attitude, prooves how little you know, so up for that wager yourself then? pm me your phone no & address & we'll set it up?

 

I am in very close contact with crane & MEWP inspectors & am qualified to inspect MEWPS myslelf & every one of them is baffled by the complexity of ropes & harnesses in arb.

 

I in-fact have run training courses for mewp inspectors interested in inspecting our equipment, five dats in not one candidate felt they could learn & retain the practical & theoretical knowlege & experiance to responsibly inspect our equipment.

 

You didn't answer my Educated Arborist question, who will loler inspect the tree I am climbing? I want to lower a large beech limb, don't know how heavy it is as I can't weigh it until I cut it off, will that anchor point I have chosen take the unknown mass of this limb? Well all this is for me to decide and estimate as a climber. My kit is useless loler tested or not if my judgment is wrong and the anchor point fails. If I can make judgments of this magnitude why can't I decide if my equipment it fit for the job??? Lolar for arb access and rigging gear is just a stupid waste of time and a bulls*** job! Who knows an injury/fatality as a direct result of equipment failure, I have read about many accidents related to tree failure or carelessness, and have witnessed the results of a fatality myself due to tree failure!!???

[Dean Lofthouse]

You didn't answer my Educated Arborist question, who will loler inspect the tree I am climbing? I want to lower a large beech limb, don't know how heavy it is as I can't weigh it until I cut it off, will that anchor point I have chosen take the unknown mass of this limb? Well all this is for me to decide and estimate as a climber. My kit is useless loler tested or not if my judgment is wrong and the anchor point fails. If I can make judgments of this magnitude why can't I decide if my equipment it fit for the job??? Lolar for arb access and rigging gear is just a stupid waste of time and a bulls*** job! Who knows an injury/fatality as a direct result of equipment failure, I have read about many accidents related to tree failure or carelessness, and have witnessed the results of a fatality myself due to tree failure!!???

 

Exactly my train of thought :congrats:

[Mesterh]

So you consider your self to be a competent person? Do you beleive that if i were to place 20 items of kit in front of you that you could cary out a thorough examination? Are you a betting man? if you were to pass one item with a significantdefect or fail an item which has no significant defects then i'll levy £200 and vice versa?

And why is it that your 10 year old rope & harness fail? what defects have you identified on them?

Loler inspecting is an incredibly complex job with stakes far higher than a £200 wager, I have numerous clients, many on this site, which are some of the most responsible, experianced & safety consious within our industry & when i return them a harness which has failed/had its inspection period significantly reduced they are concerned that they did not identify the defect them-selves in their daily inspections or weekly log. They are not however expected to learn whipping patterns, splicing tecniques, stitching patterns & configerations etc, etc, etc, etc. and that is why they have a thorough examination every six months (PPE) (12 months rigging)

One of the most commen things people say to me is Oh and that didn't fail? or are we alowed to use these/arnt these banned in arb? So many people cliam to be experts but are often not.

a competent person is (Someone with the practical & theoretical knowledge and experience) so a cs38 certified tree surgeon well practiced without a prolonged break from the industry is arguably a competant person to preform a daily inspection & was tested on this during their cs 38 exam. As an employer copying his/her nptc card/certificates, referencing their employment history & ensuring they carry out their daily inspection before climbimbing are all pretty standard measures. Commen sence?, not hard is it?

 

 

No I'm not in a hurry to lose £200 tbh since from what I've read in other posts some trained loler inspectors would fail items of kit where others would pass them.

 

"So what is it you can do to ensure your loler inspector is competent? no more than copy his nptc, varify it's no. & ask for references & ensure his T&C state that he will carry out a thorough examination as a copetent person, commmen sence????????? you have then taken all reasonable measures in a courts eyes no?"

 

I thought you said that someone who had been on a NPTC still wasnt classed as competent?

 

What equipment have you failed and why that has passed daily/weekly inspections? Not doubting you at all just interested in what fails and why.

 

Are there any instances whatsoever where a piece of arb climbing equip has failed causing an accident or fatality?

 

My old gear would probably fail due to the rope can stand up on its own and has numerous tiny nicks plus now it has been used as a tow rope! , the harness has little or no padding left and has slight nicks on parts of the webbing and some of the stitching looks a bit suss.

 

I have no worries about checking my own gear but if I did have an employee climber then I would have to get it loler inspected no questions.

 

If I use a subby who supplies there own kit I dont ask them for there loler kit checks (theres no one I know who has them done) which would obviously lead me to a hanging in court if something went wrong.Which is what I totally disagree with.

 

It would seem these days the nobody wants to take responsibility for there actions and just want to point the finger at someone else not themselves.

 

I have had injuries in the past that where completly my own fault BUT I could have blamed the boss and probably sued his pants off. (Using 020 one handed and not been told off, using a defective saw)

[High Scale]

Would you take your own bet? Sounds like an easy way to lose £200 to me.

 

 

Yeah, I agree.

[Arbocop]

ANDY

 

if you fancy a trip to leeds in june or a similar time of year over to suffolk we run the loler corces at BTS/trees unlimited.

 

the training and assessment processes are being updated as we speak to reflect some updated information and things, thus at this exact point you wont get on a LANTRA loler corce for a few weeks.

 

as for the rest of the tread makes interesting reading, and i think all have a good point, educated arborist makes some good points about the ability of inspectors to know what variouse bits of kit do, and well theres alwys something new out there , but looking at the stuff and saking questions using it is what you do if you are going to do the jobe

 

also i do fall on the side that having your gear inspected is not bull**** alass the state of a lot of gear that comes through frinspecion is woeful, the other thing people have a problem grasping is that an inspector is mesuring the gear agenst the relivant standards for its performance, not the 'that will be alright' measure.

 

now having said that the points made about loler in anchor points is a very just one as is the point about rigging weights etc.

 

with regard to that there are actually a few definitions of competent in differant bits of law but loler says by virtue of practical experiance, technical knolege, theoretical knowlege, and training it says a little moor than that but that is the crux of it. so the short answer for the climber is they are responcible for there anchor point, add the work at height stuff and it adds a duty on manager on to that.

 

the same is tru of the person doing the rigging.

 

with the recent resurch, and guids to good climbing practice, hse SHAD days and variouse requirment formoor and moor supervisionthats what makes competent, and strangly you could argue that a persone good enough to inspect your rope would not be competent to advise you on yourclimbing anchor point as they are not experianced enough in that.........

 

well there it is ultimatly we are all responcible for our own actions......... ummmm disscussss..................... but sometimes you need some one else to say no ie the mot tester.............

 

thatre you have it my opinion in a nut shell

 

cheers

[Dean Lofthouse]

What makes a mockery of all this is that the Householder can come out with a pair of ladders and do anything they want to do.

 

Tree work is dangerous, pruning trees wrongly can make trees hazardous.

 

Tree surgery courses should include units for inspecting your own kit.

 

Each person should be trained and competent to do so, I think the biggest risk is anchor point failure / Tree failure, not kit failure.

 

Bearing in mind of course that you are brainless enough to use shagged out kit, if you do you shouldn't be in this job.

 

It's my life on the end of that rope and believe me, any doubts in any piece of my equipment would result in it being binned. One reason O don't work in the rain is because I don't want my gear being stored wet and risking stitching getting mouldy and becoming weak. Although nowadays stitching is probably synthetic and not susceptable to rot, either way I won't take any chances

 

IMO. you shouldn't be able to touch a tree unless you are registered, ie like a corgi register, to show you have the qualifications / experience needed to carry out the job safely and without putting the general public at risk.

 

 

 

Every individual should be trained to inspect his/her own gear

[educated arborist]

IMO. you shouldn't be able to touch a tree unless you are registered, ie like a corgi register, to show you have the qualifications / experience needed to carry out the job safely and without putting the general public at risk.

 

 

just to take up this point dean, A group of people from our industry inluding myself are in discussions over creating exactly this, a corgi type system for tree work, PM me your tel no & prehaps you could lend us some input, any meetings are currently held at trust insurances h q board room (thanks geoff) I can feel a new thread comming on.

 

as for loler inspections i feel i could discuss this issue till i'm blue in the face, increasing numbers of firms are having their inspections done & it will certianly be a criteria for arbs equivilent of corgi, watch this space..

[educated arborist]

Would you take your own bet? Sounds like an easy way to lose £200 to me.

 

certainly would i do it every week (over 350 loler inspections each year) believe me the stakes are far far higher

[Buzzsurgeon]

just to take up this point dean, A group of people from our industry inluding myself are in discussions over creating exactly this, a corgi type system for tree work, PM me your tel no & prehaps you could lend us some input, any meetings are currently held at trust insurances h q board room (thanks geoff) I can feel a new thread comming on.

 

as for loler inspections i feel i could discuss this issue till i'm blue in the face, increasing numbers of firms are having their inspections done & it will certianly be a criteria for arbs equivilent of corgi, watch this space..

 

 

It's already here it's called the Abororicultural Association and you can then pay to become a Arboricultural Approved Contractor.