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Treemon

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I think 'the youth of today' is partly to blame but I also believe that the colleges are playing their part.

They seem to be feeding information to students that glamourises what we do. Sure, the gear is much slicker than it was only six years ago but there seems to be an educational trend that makes the newbies think that progression is rapid.

ie: two years at college, one year working for a firm (wrecking all the bosses gear) then buy a cheap tipper and that's it, you're made and the work will flood to you!

 

What a crock!

In my experience a studious student will be about 5% commercially viable after a two year course and take 3 times longer to do any tree job than they are needed to. Don't fly off the handle chaps, I know every one starts somewhere and I remember being slow myself. I also remember being very aware that I didn't know didly about the job and wasn't a 'real tree surgeon' until I'd be doing it 5-6 days a week for At least two years.

 

What I also remember is that I never complained, I didn't think I deserved more money and I certainly didn't think I was god in a harness.:sneaky2:

 

These days my body aches, I know I deserve more money and I complain all the time:001_tt2:

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I know a company owner who calls spruce Christmas trees, told me to fell a beech that was a red oak and many more besides.

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These days my body aches, I know I deserve more money and I complain all the time:001_tt2:

 

Oh so true thats why i took on some young uns :thumbup:

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i'm on nd and the lecturers would rather theach us the tree id than anything else and theres only about 3 of us that appreciate this

and even though i havn't been trying recently i can still remember most common trees and some not so common trees in english and latin

but i love the subject especially when they start talking about forestry and woodland managment as thats what intrests me so i can learn it very easily that and anything machinery wise

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When i did my ND we had to learn 20 different trees every week in english and latin from twigs, buds and leaves - im so glad now

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That is pretty frightening, and frustrating for you, especially if you send them to cut down a particular tree and they cut down the neighbour's prize specimen instead.

 

I am curious to know what a person who spent 2 years at arb college can actually do?

 

 

Ive done 2 years at university level in arb and will be doing a 3rd. My climbing isnt world class but i can get the job done. My tree knowledge is good and i can tell the difference between the two native oaks fairly easily, thats not much to say but i know a lot of people who struggled with it!

 

I know basic info on the legal aspect of things, enough that it helps me with my work and i can explain to customers and neighbours whos tree is whos and what they can do about it!

 

a 2 year arb student should be able to identify an ash from a distance and be able to give you its latin name no problems.

 

There are gear monkeys everywhere, they get into the game just to use the gear but it takes more than a love for shiny stuff to be good in this world.

 

i admit i like my shiny things but do like the job as a whole and shiny stuff makes it fun! :thumbup1:

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nothing suprises me any more, not after a 22 year old thought Churchill sold insurance and was some sort of accountant.

 

it shows to me that they want to wear the gear and look like tree monkeys but not love trees or want to know about them - theres more and more like that - just had one!

 

They do.

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Was it just a mistake with the ash, or does the kid really not know how to identify them? Everyone makes a little slip up every now and then.

 

What grade did the lad get in his ND? did he just pass or get the full tripple distinction? thats the differece between a D level student and A*. Also if he went straight onto the course at 16 and had never worked then they may not apply themselves as much. I have heard in more then one college teaching ND level arb that the instructor had finished the course, worked in the world for 1 year then gone back to teach the ND. That is stupid, and will lead to students not getting the best insights in to the industry, and after 1 year not many can say they can tackle any tree, have observed tree structural defects for real, and that real world isnt as black and white as text books. - Of course the colleges are going to glamourise the course and the job and say there is tonnes of work out there, the more students they have the more money they have got.

 

At the end of the day the ND is a good thing to have but it is up to the individual undertaking it to get as much as they can from it, and with the market as competative as it is and getting more so every year, the newbies will have to work hard to get the and keep the jobs that are there or work for less money - i know of one guy who got laid off being told there was no work, who then found out that with in a month two new guys were taken on who were nearly half his wage, - and the bloke in question is a good climber and crew leader.

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I could string you all a shed-full of horrible nasty but true stories about my experiences teaching Arb at a college for 3 months, or even my experiences in arb in general ( I was not allowed to use a Stihl ms460 with a 20" bar because i didnt have CS32. no mention of years of experiences with 880's!!)

 

However the most distressing part is - What are we going to DO about it?

 

Time and time again, speaking to different people from backgrounds, no-one seems to care about changing things for the better. The industry is going down pooh creek without a paddle, people who want to make the effort are bullied out of work by the "cut n runs", and the "authoritive bodies" nearly always either turn a blind eye, or dont even have the knowledge & experience to see things are wrong.

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